^j^fWmicB^ 


■^OLOGICM  SE1A\^ 


A 


CONVERSATIONS   WITH   LUTHER 


PORTRAIT  of  MARTIN  LUTHER 

By  Cranach.     Original  in  Milan. 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH 
""LUTHER 

Selections  from  recently  published  sources 
of  the 

TABLE  TALK 

Translated  and  edited 
by 

PRESERVED 'smith,  Ph.D. 

Author  of  "The  Life  and  Letters  of  Martin  Luther,"  etc.,  editor  of 

"  Luther's  Correspondence  and  other 

contemporary  Letters,"  etc. 

AND 

HERBERT  PERCIVAL  GALLINGER,  Ph.D. 

Associate  Professor  of  History  at  Amherst  College 


THE  PILGRIM  PRESS 

BOSTON  NEW  YORK  CHICAGO 


Copyright  1915 

By  preserved  SMITH  and 

HERBERT  PERCIVAL  GALLINGER 


T«re  PILGRIM  PRESS 
BOSTON 


CONTENTS 

rAGE 

Introduction ix 

1.  Luther's  Childhood 1 

2.  At  Erfurt  University,  1501-1505,  and  the 

Erfurt  Friary,  1505-1508,  1509-1511.   .  5 

3.  The  Journey  to  Rome,  December,  1510  .  16 

4.  Teaching  at  Wittenberg,  1508-1509,  and 

1511-46 20 

5.  The  Theses  on  Indulgences,  1517  ....  24 

6.  The  Interview  with  Cardinal  Cajetan 

AT  Augsburg,  October,  1518 25 

7.  Luther's  Return  from  Augsburg,  1518.    .  29 

8.  Charles  von  Miltitz  Fails  to  Arrest  the 

Heretic,  1519 31 

9.  The  Diet  OF  Worms,  April,  1521 33 

10.  The  Controversy  with  Carlstadt,  1523  .  38 

11.  Marriage  and  Family  Life 41 

12.  How  the  Table  Talk  WAS  Collected.    .    .  66 

13.  Contemporary  Politics 70 

14.  War  and  Turbulence 88 

15.  The  Peasants 90 

16.  Schools 96 

17.  Music 98 

18.  Astronomy  and  Astrology 101 

19.  The  Humanists 105 

20.  Human   Reason  and  the  Philosophy   of 

THE  Pagans )14 

21.  Justification 126 

22.  Predestination 135 

(t1 


CONTENTS 

vAce 

23.  The  Papacy 138 

24.  Monks  and  Monasticism 151 

25.  The  Devil 156 

26.  The  World  Prefers  Satan  to  the  Gospel.  165 

27.  God  and  His  Gifts 168 

28.  The  Bible 175 

29.  Preachers  and  Preaching 187 

30.  Wyclif  and  Huss 197 

31.  Philip  Melanchthon 200 

32.  Heretics 205 

33.  Concerning  Lies 208 

34.  Temptations 210 

35.  Questions 212 

36.  Miscellaneous 226 

Bibliographical  Note 252 

Index  ...    : 255 


[vil 


ILLUSTRATIONS 

PAGB 

Portrait  of  Martin  Luther  Frontispiece 

In  Luther's  House  at  Wittenburg 20 

Luther's  Room  at  the  Wartburg 36 

Luther  and  His  Wife  and  Children 42 

Catherine  Luther 60 


ITUI 


INTRODUCTION. 

If  the  title  "  The  Fifteen  Decisive  Battles 
of  the  World  "  be  taken  in  its  full  meaning, 
to  assert  a  certain  philosophy  of  history, 
one  might  combat  it  by  alleging  the  decisive 
character  of  fifteen  events  of  a  different  kind, 
for  example,  "  The  Fifteen  Decisive  Love- 
Affairs  of  the  World."  The  second  title 
has  as  much  plausibility  as  the  first.  Did 
not  Antony  lose  half  a  world  for  Cleopatra's 
voluptuous  charms.^  Was  not  the  Con- 
queror born  of  the  chance  meeting  of  Robert 
the  Devil  and  a  bare-foot  girl?  In  how  far 
was  the  poet  Gray  right  in  saying  that  the 
Reformation  in  England  was  due  to  "  the 
gospel  light  that  dawned  in  Boleyn's  eyes  ".'* 

Perhaps  the  cleanest,  and  surely  the  most 
momentous,  of  historic  love-affairs  was  that 
of  Friar  Martin  and  Sister  Catharine,  who, 
convinced  that  their  vows  of  celibacy  were 
wrong  and  void,  married  each  other  on  June 
13,  1525.  The  act,  symbolizing  and  crown- 
ing the  whole  revolt  from  Rome,  created 
an  immense  sensation  throughout  Europe. 
The  rage  of  the  Catholics  at  "  the  monk 
Priapus  and  the  nun  Venus  ''  was,  for  the 
most  part,  expressed  in  language  not  fit  to 


INTRODUCTION 


be  repeated.  Henry  VIII,  from  the  vantage- 
ground  of  his  own  superior  domestic  life, 
had  the  bridal  couple  put  into  a  scurillous 
comedy,  and  his  chancellor,  Sir  Thomas  More, 
could  not  miss  the  opportunity  of  mocking 
at  "  Friar  Luther  and  Cate  Callate,  his  nun, 
lusking  together  in  lechery."  Surely,  said 
men.  Antichrist  must  now  come,  —  for  was 
it  not  prophesied  that  he  should  be  born  of 
the  union  of  a  monk  and  a  nun.^  Erasmus 
expressed  the  shrewd  suspicion  that  Anti- 
christ need  not  have  waited  so  long  to  appear, 
and  affected  to  take  the  thing  lightly. 
Hitherto,  said  he,  we  have  considered  the 
Reformation  a  tragedy,  but  now,  as  it  ends 
in  a  wedding,  we  know  it  to  be  a  comedy. 
Even  Luther's  followers  were  not  all  pleased. 
Poor,  timid  Melanchthon  shook  his  head  over 
it  in  the  most  lugubrious  way.  Truly,  as 
the  bridegroom  remarked  of  his  marriage, 
**  the  angels  laughed,  and  the  devils  wept 
thereat." 

Undisturbed  by  the  general  storm,  the 
newly  married  couple  settled  down  to  twenty 
years  of  quiet,  domestic  happiness.  Their 
love  for  each  other  was  of  the  deepest,  best 
kind.  Luther  confessed  in  letters  to  friends, 
that,  when  he  kissed  his  wife,  he  thanked 
God  "  for  this  best  little  creature  of  his/' 


INTRODUCTION 


During  the  first  year  of  marriage,  "  Katie," 
as  her  husband  always  called  her,  would  sit  by 
him  at  his  work,  trying  to  think  up  questions 
to  ask. 

But  soon  her  leisure  was  taken  up  with  the 
cares  of  a  large  house  and  family.  Six 
children  came  to  her  in  time,  —  Hans,  a 
good,  honest  fellow;  Elizabeth  whose  early 
death  left  her  father  "  wonderfully  sick  at 
heart  and  almost  womanish";  Magdalene, 
a  lovely  little  girl  who  died  in  her  fourteenth 
year;  Martin,  a  rather  sickly  boy,  for  a 
time  his  father's  "  dearest  treasure  ";  Paul, 
the  brilliant  member  of  the  family;  and 
Alargaret. 

After  his  marriage,  as  before,  Luther  con- 
tinued to  live  in  the  large  and  handsome 
brick  building  which  had  once  been  the 
Augustinian  cloister.  The  general  exodus 
of  its  inmates,  following  the  Reformer's 
proclamation  of  monastic  emancipation,  had 
left  it  nearly  empty.  At  first  assigned  to 
him  as  a  temporary  residence,  it  was,  in 
1532,  deeded  by  the  government  to  him  and 
his  wife  jointly.  As  professor  in  the  uni- 
versity the  Reformer  received  a  sufficient 
salary,  about  the  equivalent,  in  purchasing 
power,  to  that  now  paid  to  teachers  in  the 
larger   institutions   of   learning.     The   great 

Ixil 


INTRODUCTION 


thrift  of  Frau  Luther,  and  the  bounty  of 
princes,  enabled  her  to  accumulate  a  con- 
siderable property,  notwithstanding  her  hus- 
band's unbounded  liberality  and  hospitality. 

For  the  great  house  was  always  full  to  the 
brim.  Besides  keeping  a  number  of  his  own 
and  Katie's  poor  relatives,  the  Reformer 
entertained  many  distinguished  guests  from 
abroad,  and  a  constant  quota  of  poor  stu- 
dents. The  latter  paid  for  their  board  in 
services,  usually  clerical,  but  sometimes 
menial.  The  janitor,  indeed,  Wolfgang  Sie- 
berger,  had  come  to  Wittenberg  as  a  student 
of  theology,  but,  unable  to  keep  up  with  the 
very  modest  requirements  of  the  class-room, 
adapted  himself  to  a  humbler  ministry. 

Regarding  the  master  with  unlimited 
veneration,  it  was  quite  natural  that  these 
men  should  keep  a  record  of  all  that  he  said, 
not  only  of  his  formal  utterances  in  pulpit 
and  lecture-room,  but  also  of  his  lightest 
words  at  meals  and  by  the  evening  fireside. 
The  first  to  conceive  this  idea,  according  to 
his  own  account,  was  Conrad  Cordatus,  a 
grizzled  Austrian,  older  than  his  host.  Con- 
verted to  Protestantism  and  ordained  to  the 
ministry,  he  was  unfortunately  able  to  keep 
neither  his  temper  nor  the  various  positions 
secured  for  him.     The  long  intervals  while 

[  xii  I 


INTRODUCTION 


he  was  out  of  work  he  spent  at  Wittenberg, 
and  it  was  during  one  of  these,  in  1531, 
that,  notwithstanding  some  qualms  of  deli- 
cacy, he  began  to  write  in  a  note-book  all 
that  he  heard  his  host  say  at  table.  He  was 
not  on  the  best  of  terms  with  his  hostess, 
and  his  importunity  occasionally  got  him  a 
snub  from  Luther  himself. 

His  example  was  promptly  followed  by 
others.  The  first  of  these  was  Veit  (Guy) 
Dietrich,  a  lad  who  acted  as  Luther's  private 
secretary  during  the  years  1529-1534,  in 
which  capacity  he  accompanied  his  master 
to  Feste  Coburg  during  the  summer  of  1530. 
While  at  Wittenberg  he  fell  in  love  with 
Luther's  niece  and  prot^g^e,  Magdalene 
Kaufmann.  On  Veit  asking  for  her  hand, 
her  uncle  replied:  "  I  know  that  my  niece 
would  be  well  cared  for  by  you,  but  I  am  not 
sure  that  you  would  be  well  cared  for  by  her. 
She  must  be  better  brought  up.  If  she  does 
not  behave  better  I  will  give  her  to  a  black 
smelter,  and  not  cheat  a  pious,  learned  man 
with  her."  This  refusal  damped  the  ardor 
of  the  young  people,  each  of  whom  shortly 
found  consolation  elsewhere.  Dietrich  took 
a  number  of  private  pupils,  and  it  was  his 
attempt  to  introduce  them  all  into  the  Black 
Cloister  (as  the   Luther   house   was   called) 

[  xiii  1 


INTRODUCTION 


that  led  to  a  vigorous  protest  from  Katie, 
and  his  own  subsequent  withdrawal.  As 
pastor  at  Nuremberg  for  many  years  after, 
he  gave  satisfaction. 

A  third  reporter  was  John  Schlaginhaufen, 
a  pale  youth  so  obsessed  with  remorse  for 
his  sins  that  he  occasionally  fell  into  fits, 
from  which  he  was  recalled  by  the  ghostly 
advice  and  comfort  of  his  revered  master. 
In  later  life  he  recovered  sufficiently  to  fill 
a  small  pastorate  creditably. 

Katie  was  not  always  pleased  to  see  the 
students  get  so  much  instruction  gratis. 
In  advising  her  husband  to  charge  them  for 
it,  she  noted,  almost  with  jealousy,  that 
Anthony  Lauterbach  got  the  most  and  the 
best.  As  his  voluminous  manuscripts  testify, 
this  true-hearted  young  fellow  did  indeed 
evince  an  almost  superhuman  diligence  in 
letting  absolutely  no  gem  of  wisdom  escape 
him.  Not  content  with  what  he  heard  him- 
self, during  two  long  visits  in  1533  and  again 
from  1536  to  1539,  he  copied  all  the  notes 
he  could  collect  from  others,  and  spent  a 
considerable  portion  of  his  existence  in 
arranging  and  rearranging  the  separate  say- 
ings in  topical  order. 

His  friend  Jerome  Weller,  who  spent  nine 
years   (1527-1536)   of  study  at  Wittenberg 

Ixlv] 


INTRODUCTION 


as  a  guest  of  the  Black  Cloister,  also  took 
copious  notes.  Another  reporter  was  Lewis 
Rabe,  a  refugee  from  the  tyranny  of  Albert, 
Archbishop  of  Mainz.  From  one  of  Lu- 
ther's letters  we  learn  that  he  sat  at  table 
"  like  a  maiden,"  apparently  saying  little 
but  hearing  much.  Still  another  member  of 
this  devoted  company  was  Nicholas  Medler, 
one  of  the  very  smallest  satellites  revolving 
about  and  reflecting  the  rays  of  Germany's 
great  luminary. 

By  the  end  of  1539  all  the  students  just 
mentioned  had  left,  but  their  places  were 
speedily  taken  by  others  no  whit  less  zealous. 
The  first  of  these,  both  In  time  and  in  im- 
portance, was  John  Matheslus.  For  many 
years  a  schoolmaster,  he  never  gave  up  the 
hope  of  becoming  a  minister,  and  at  the  age 
of  thirty-six  a  lucky  speculation  in  mines 
proved  the  providential  means  of  fulfilling 
his  pious  wishes.  From  May  to  November, 
1540,  he  was  Luther's  guest.  When,  at  the 
latter  end  of  his  stay,  he  endeavored  to  use 
the  Black  Cloister  as  a  boarding-school  for 
his  private  pupils,  the  Reformer  consented 
to  receive  as  many  as  four  of  the  boys,  but, 
as  the  number  grew,  requested  them  to  seek 
another  refectory  —  more  expensive,  per- 
haps, if  less  inspiring.     Matheslus,  however, 

I  XV] 


INTRODUCTION 


kept  his  records,  and  published  some  of 
them  later  in  his  biography  of  the  master 
(1566).  His  manuscript  as  a  whole,  how- 
ever, had  to  wait  three  hundred  and  fifty 
years  to  see  the  light. 

With  Mathesius  were  a  few  other  students 
of  whom  little  need  be  said.  There  was 
George  Plato  of  Hamburg,  who  lodged  as 
well  as  boarded  at  the  Black  Cloister  in 
1540;  there  was  Caspar  Heydenreich  a 
little  later  (1541-3),  and  Jerome  Besold 
(1544)  and  John  Stolz  (1542-6).  Nor  are 
these  all  the  names  that  might  be  men- 
tioned. So  much  the  fashion  did  it  become  to 
improve  each  shining  hour  at  the  master's 
table,  that  many  a  transient  guest  has  left 
his  own  tiny  sheaf  of  gleanings.  It  would 
serve  no  purpose  to  enumerate  them  all, 
but  we  must  not  omit  to  notice  George  Rorer, 
a  Wittenberg  deacon,  for  twenty  years  the 
chief  secretary  and  literary  factotum  of  the 
Reformer.  Though  never  a  boarder  at  the 
quondam  friary,  he  was  a  frequent  guest, 
and  has  left  a  record  of  some  conversations. 

The  last  of  the  students  to  take  notes, 
and  the  first  to  publish  them,  was  John 
Aurifaber  of  Mansfeld,  who  came  to  the 
Reformer  as  an  amanuensis  in  1545,  and  re- 
mained with  him  during  the  last  year  of  his 

[  xvi  1 


INTRODUCTION 


life,  being  present  at  his  death  at  Eisleben, 
on  February  18,  1546.  Later  he  took 
Lauterbach's  large  collection,  added  to  it, 
and  published  it  in  1566.  Just  five  years 
later  a  man  named  Rebenstock  turned 
Lauterbach's  collection  into  Latin,  and  pub- 
lished it  in  that  form. 

It  is  not  impossible  to  imagine  what  an 
evening  with  Luther  must  have  been.  The 
Black  Cloister  is  still  standing,  and  the 
living  rooms,  one  flight  up,  to  the  front,  are 
preserved  as  they  were.  One  of  them, 
handsomely  wainscotted  in  dark  wood,  was 
used  as  the  dining-room,  apparently  served 
by  a  small  spiral  staircase  leading  to  the 
kitchen  on  the  ground  floor.  Furnished  with 
a  long  table,  and  low,  comfortable  chairs 
and  benches,  it  was  also  ornamented  with 
silver  and  crystal  goblets,  and  with  paintings 
by  Lucas  Cranach,  including  both  portraits 
and  allegorical  pictures.  In  summer,  flowers 
were  not  lacking;  in  winter,  a  large  tile 
stove  difl'used  a  pleasant  warmth. 

As  the  day  began  at  four  or  five,  and  as  the 
principal  meal  was  at  ten  a.m.,  supper  was 
served  about  five,  leaving  a  few  hours  for 
literary  work  or  for  conversation  before  bed- 
time at  nine.  Generous  portions  of  pork, 
sausage,  rye-bread  and  other  plain  food  were 

I  xvii  1 


INTRODUCTION 


washed  down  with  copious  draughts  of  home- 
brewed beer,  or,  on  great  occasions,  with 
wine.  Under  the  genial  influence  of  the 
warmth,  the  company  and  the  liquor,  the 
Reformer,  wearied  by  a  day  of  hard  toil, 
would  unbend  in  a  flow  of  conversation,  em- 
ploying a  mixture  of  Latin  and  German.  At 
the  far  end  of  the  table  the  group  of  children 
surrounding  Katie  would  not  disturb  him 
sitting  at  the  head  among  his  guests  and 
students,  some  of  whom  were  always  strain- 
ing over  their  notebooks,  anxious  lest  the 
least  word  of  the  great  man  should  fall  into 
oblivion. 

And  what  did  he  talk  about. f*  Literally, 
everything.  Sometimes  it  was  a  personal 
reminiscence,  perhaps  of  his  far-off",  unhappy 
boyhood  at  Mansfeld,  or  of  his  student-life 
at  Erfurt,  or  of  his  spiritual  agonies  in  the 
cloister,  or  of  the  journey  to  Rome  and  all 
he  saw  there  —  the  pomp  and  glory,  the 
unexampled  corruption  and  wickedness  of 
the  capital  of  Christendom.  Again  he  would 
tell  how  he  attacked  indulgences  in  1517,  or 
debated  with  Eck  at  Leipsic,  or  made  the 
great  stand  at  Worms,  in  which  he  "  played 
a  game  with  the  pope  that  no  king  or  emperor 
ever  played."  Or,  coming  to  later  years, 
he  would   inveigh   against  those   "  beasts," 

[  xviii  ] 


INTRODUCTION 


the  peasants,  who  almost  spoiled  his  work  by 
their  inopportune  revolt  in  1525.  Or  he 
would  speak  of  his  enemies,  while  his  eyes 
flashed  "  with  good,  fresh  wrath."  How 
unbridled  is  his  language!  "  I  will  curse  a 
pater-noster  against  the  papacy,  that  it 
get  an  epileptic  fit";  "I  will  sing  Psalm 
Ixiv  for  a  farewell  to  the  papists  and  hope  they 
will  howl  *  Amen  '  to  it."  Nor  was  such 
language  unpleasing  to  the  men  of  that  day, 
as  it  is  to  us.  "  My  wrath  is  God's  wrath," 
Luther  once  said,  and  Melanchthon  added: 
*' Yes,  it  is  a  heroic  virtue!  " 

Nor  were  his  anathemas  confined  to  the 
papists.  He  once  remarked  that  there  "  was 
a  regular  fraternity  of  skeptics  in  Germany," 
and  the  list  of  men  he  nominated  for  mem- 
bership in  this  club  was  large.  Conrad 
Mutian  was  an  atheist  because  he  taught 
that  all  religions  were  one;  Erasmus  was  an 
atheist  because  he  criticised  the  text  of  the 
New  Testament;  Carlstadt  was  an  atheist 
because  he  denied  the  Real  Presence  in  the 
sacrament;  Campanus  was  worse  than  an 
atheist  because  he  was  a  Unitarian.  If 
Copernicus  was  not  an  atheist  it  was  simply 
because  he  was  nothing  but  a  big  fool  for 
asserting  that  the  earth  went  around  the  sun. 
So  with  many  earnest  and  pious  men.     In 

[xix] 


INTRODUCTION 


that  day  tolerance  was  indeed  rare;  every- 
body was  as  bad  in  this  respect  as  Luther, 
or  at  least  as  bad  as  he  could  be. 

Often  Luther  talked  of  books,  and  very 
sound  and  trenchant  opinions  he  often  gave 
of  them.  History,  particularly  of  the  church, 
furnished  him  with  much  matter;  the 
wickedness  of  the  popes  (especially  Alexander 
VI)  and  the  virtues  of  Huss  and  the  martyrs 
were  often  on  his  tongue.  Much  he  had  to 
say  of  God,  both  of  his  wrath  and  of  his 
mercy;  much  of  his  own  doctrines  and  es- 
pecially of  faith,  faith  without  works.  The 
Bible,  the  translation  and  exegesis  of  which 
was  his  life-work,  was  also  a  constant 
theme. 

But  it  is  not  only  his  weightier  words  that 
have  come  down  to  us.  The  students  were 
as  much  without  reserve  as  the  master. 
Nothing  was  too  sacred,  nothing  was  too 
trivial  for  them.  Luther's  heart-rending 
grief  at  the  death  of  his  daughter,  and 
Luther's  idle  jests  and  coarse  stories  are  all 
repeated  as  if  by  dictograph.  For,  strange 
as  it  may  seem  to  us,  the  pious  man's  con- 
versations with  his  students  contained  many 
a  free  tale  of  the  flesh,  and  many  a  word  and 
phrase  now  banished  from  good  society. 
In  this  he  has  at  least  the  excuse  of  his  time. 


INTRODUCTION 


"  No  great  man,"  it  has  been  well  said,^  "  ever 
feared  coarseness;  little  men  cannot  afford 
to  be  found  ill-bred."  The  most  unpleasant 
of  Luther's  indelicate  sayings  are  those  about 
his  own  wife.  For  these  it  is  hard  to  find 
an  excuse  even  in  the  practice  of  the  time; 
he  might  have  learned  better  from  Erasmus.^ 
Far  more  to  Luther's  discredit  than  his 
occasional  coarseness  of  speech  were  his 
harsh  utterances  concerning  the  German 
peasants,  the  class  from  which  he  himself 
sprang.  The  peasants  were  no  doubt  dull  of 
comprehension,  inappreciative  of  their  bless- 
ings, and  sometimes  brutal,  but  they  hardly 
deserved  to  be  called  "  beasts  "  and  "  swine." 
The  Reformer  claimed  that  they  had  more 
to  be  thankful  for  than  the  nobles  themselves, 
but  surely  his  judgment  on  this  point  was 
sadly  warped.  And  one  must  regret  also 
his  narrow  intolerance  of  those  who  dif- 
fered from  him,  even  slightly,  in  religious 
matters.  His  relentless  condemnation  of 
sincere  reformers  like  Zwingli,  and  his  bitter 

^  Thf  Atheneum,  January  13,  1912,  review  of  Aristophanes. 

*"Multo  minus  decet  maritos  apud  alios  jactare  formam 
conjugum  suarum.  Sed  his  quoque  faciunt  indecentius,  qui 
quidquid  in  thalamo,  quidquid  in  lecto  cum  uxore  nuganiur, 
depraedicant  in  conviviis  et  in  colloquiis  apud  quoslibet.  Si 
turpe  est  effere  quod  inter  pocula  dictum  est,  quanto  turpius 
est  ea  non  continere,  quorum  oportebat  solum  cubile  torumquc 
conscium  esse?"     "Lingua,"  Erasmi  opera,  1703,  iv,  686. 

[xxij 


INTRODUCTION 


persecution  of  certain  apparently  harmless 
Anabaptists  who  came  within  his  reach, 
grew  out  of  the  same  medieval  attitude  of 
mind  which  made  possible  the  horrors  of  the 
Inquisition  and  the  religious  wars. 

On  the  other  hand  the  reader  of  these 
verbatim  reports  of  Luther's  familiar  talk 
cannot  fail  to  be  impressed  with  the  man's 
abounding  humor,  which  no  doubt  stood  him 
in  good  stead  in  many  a  time  of  trial,  as  well 
as  with  the  good  sense  with  which  he  answered 
most  of  the  questions  that  were  put  to  him. 
Charming  also  are  his  love  of  children,  his 
fondness  for  music,  his  liberality  and  dis- 
interestedness, his  hearty  appreciation  of 
life's  blessings  and  his  strong,  simple  faith 
in  Christ.  But  how  often  and  with  what 
agony  of  soul  he  had  to  struggle  with  tempta- 
tion! To  him  the  devil  and  witches  were 
real  beings,  assailing  Christians  in  many 
ways  and  to  be  contended  against  con- 
stantly. At  times  he  was  almost  overcome 
by  despair.  Evil  influences  seemed  on  the 
increase.  The  world  seemed  so  incorrigible! 
But  melancholy  moods,  occasioned,  perhaps, 
by  bodily  illness,  soon  yielded  to  the  spirit 
of  hopefulness  and  courage,  and  to  an  enor- 
mous and  self-sacrificing  industry.  It  no 
doubt  helped  him  also  to  be  able  to  pour 

[  xxii  ] 


INTRODUCTION 


out  his  soul  so  freely  as  he  did  to  his  Intimate 
companions. 

Taken  as  a  whole,  there  is  in  all  literature 
no  more  charming  or  fascinating  book  than 
these  Intimate  revelations  of  Luther's 
heart.  All  the  autobiographies  and  "  con- 
fessions "  of  men  claimxlng  to  lay  bare  their 
souls,  In  reality  reveal  but  a  certain  pose, 
generally  conscious,  but  sometimes  not. 
There  is  Indeed  Pepys,  who  wrote  a  diary  in 
cypher  with  equal,  though  no  greater,  un- 
reserve than  that  with  which  Luther  talked. 
But  what  a  difference  In  the  men!  On  the 
one  hand  a  little  rogue  and  coxcomb,  on  the 
other  a  heart  and  brain  of  the  first  order  of 
greatness.  It  is  Froude  who  calls  the  table 
talk  "  one  of  the  most  brilliant  books  In  the 
world,''  and  "  as  full  of  matter  as  Shakes- 
peare's plays."  It  Is  M^rimee  who  writes 
to  his  Unknown  Lady:  "  The  other  night 
when  I  could  hardly  breathe  I  read  Luther's 
table  talk.  I  like  the  big  man  with 
all  his  prejudices  and  his  hatred  for  the 
devil." 

It  Is  not  remarkable  that  the  book 
has  enjoyed  unbounded  popularity.  Besides 
countless  reprints  of  the  German,  It  has  been 
translated  into  several  other  languages  — 
twice  into  English.     The  first  time  was  by 

[  imi  \ 


INTRODUCTION 


Captain  Henry  Bell,  a  soldier  of  fortune 
who  served  in  various  diplomatic  and  military 
positions  abroad,  chiefly  in  Brandenburg, 
during  the  years  1606-1618.  He  then  held 
a  sinecure  office  for  some  years,  but  in  1631, 
on  the  charge  of  forging  German  passports 
and  other  "  foul  frauds  "  was  thrown  into 
prison  for  about  ten  years.  Here  he  em- 
ployed his  leisure  in  translating  the  table 
talk.  The  German  copy  he  used,  printed  at 
Frankfort  in  1574,  may  now  be  seen  at  Sidney 
Sussex  College,  Cambridge.  He  sent  his 
manuscript  first  to  Archbishop  Laud,  who 
kept  it  two  years  and  returned  it  with  a 
present  of  fifty  pounds.  He  then  sent  it  to 
the  Commons  with  the  purpose  not  only  to 
secure  sole  license  to  print,  but  to  get  an 
order  that  the  book  should  be  put  in  every 
church  in  England,  as  had  been  done  in  the 
case  of  the  Bible  and  of  Erasmus'  Para- 
phrases. The  former  request  was  granted, 
in  an  order  of  February  24,  1646-7;  the 
latter  was  apparently  referred  to  "  an  As- 
sembly of  divines"  (Convocation.^).  These 
reverend  gentlemen  reported.  May  3,  1647, 
that  although  the  book  contained  many 
good  things,  yet  there  were  also  many  pas- 
sages contrary  to  truth,  gravity  and  modesty, 
making  it  unfit  for  public  use.     The  work 


INTRODUCTION 


finally  appeared  five  years  later  under  the 
title:  Martin  Luther^ s  Colloquia  Mensalia, 
or  his  last  Divine  Discourses  at  his  Table. 
Notwithstanding  the  translator's  assurance 
that  he  "  had  the  High  Dutch  tongue  very 
perfectly,"  his  work  is  not  scholarly,  though 
the  quaint  old  English  is  pleasant. 

Another  translation  of  the  table  talk  was 
made  in  1848  by  William  Hazlitt,  son  of  the 
celebrated  essayist.  In  his  introduction  and 
critical  work  he  leans  very  heavily  on  the 
French  version  made  by  Gustave  Brunet 
four  years  before,  copying  all  the  mistakes 
of  this  book,  even  to  misprints  in  proper 
names.  It  is  also  probable  that  Bell's 
translation  is  made  largely  from  the  French. 
At  any  rate  it  is  very  inaccurate,  though,  in 
default  of  a  better,  and  because  of  its  easy 
style,  it  has  been  popular  and  has  been  often 
reprinted. 

The  aim  of  the  present  translation  is  not, 
however,  so  much  to  correct  the  faults  of 
previous  ones  as  to  bring  new  and  impor- 
tant material  to  the  attention  of  the  English- 
speaking  public.  Until  the  present  genera- 
tion practically  all  that  was  known  of  the 
table  talk  was  the  edition  of  Aurifaber,  and 
as  an  editor  this  person  treated  his  material 
with  extreme  freedom  —  suppressing,  omit- 

Ixxv] 


INTRODUCTION 


ting,  expanding,  and  altering,  to  suit  his 
own  pious,  rather  than  scholarly,  purposes. 
The  publication  of  the  original  records  in 
recent  years  has  for  the  first  time  offered  a 
really  good  text  and  has  also  brought  to 
light  much  that  was  unknown  to  Aurifaber. 
The  first  of  these  new  sources  to  be  pub- 
lished was  Lauterbach's  "  Diary  for  1538," 
printed  in  1872.  Thirteen  years  afterwards 
Cordatus's  notes  were  given  to  the  public, 
and  three  years  later  those  of  Schlaginhaufen. 
The  records  of  Mathesius,  Rabe  and  Hey- 
denreich,  with  some  of  Lauterbach's  and 
Weller's,  were  published  by  Losche  in  1892, 
and,  from  a  much  better  manuscript,  with 
additional  notes  of  Besold  and  Plato,  by 
Kroker  in  1903.  The  important  manu- 
scripts of  Dietrich  and  Medler  did  not  issue 
from  the  press  until  1912.  As  there  are  no 
more  sources  of  importance  as  yet  unpub- 
lished, the  moment  seems  propitious  for 
using  this  vast  amount  of  new  material.  So 
voluminous  is  it  that  a  selection  only  is 
practicable,  but,  though  comparatively  small, 
the  present  chrestomathy,  it  is  hoped,  will 
present  to  the  reader  of  English  most  of 
the  new  material  of  first  importance  and 
serve  to  represent  fairly  well  the  atmosphere 
of  Luther's  environment  as  well  as  the  per- 

( xxvi ] 


INTRODUCTION 


sonal    characteristics    and    opinions    of    the 
Reformer  himself. 

Finally  the  editors  desire  to  express  their 
obligation  to  Professors  William  L.  Cowles 
and  Clarence  W.  Eastman  of  Amherst  College 
for  aid  in  the  interpretation  of  various 
passages,  and  to  Dr.  Winifred  Smith  of 
Vassar  College  for  suggestions  as  to  the 
arrangement  of  the  material. 

P.  S. 
H.  P.  G. 


[  xxvii  ] 


1.  LUTHER^S  CHILDHOOD.  .  ^ 

^   "One  should  not  whip  children  too  hard.  /^k"^ 

My  father  once  whipped  me  so  severely 
that  I  fled  from  him  and  it  was  difficult  for 
him  to  win  me  back  again  to  himself.  \ 
would  not  willingly  strike  little  Hans*  much, 
for  if  I  did  he  would  be  shy  of  me  and  hate 
me,  than  which  no  greater  sorrow  could 
happen  to  me.  God  acts  in  this  way,  for 
he  says:  *  I  will  chastize  you,  my  children, 
(i.  e.,  by  Satan  or  the  world)  but  if  you  cry 
and  come  unto  me  I  will  take  you  and  raise 
you  up.'  For  God  does  not  like  us  to  hate 
him." 

Then  Luther  said  children  should  not  be 
permitted  to  steal,  but  that  mildness  should 
be  used  if  they  only  stole  cherries  or  apples. 
"  Those  boyish  pranks  are  not  to  be  severely 
punished;  it  is  time  to  punish  when  tehy  ^ 
begin  on  money,  clothes  or  boxes.  My 
parents  were  so  strict  that  they  made  me 
cowardly.  My  mother  beat  me  until  the 
blood  flowed,  for  the  sake  of  a  single  nut. 
And  by  this  strict  discipline  they  finally 
forced  me  into  the  monastery,  though  they 

*  His  own  oldest  son,  born  June  7,  1526.     Luther  speaks  in 
1532. 

(11 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

meant  heartily  well  by  it.  They  could  not 
read  dispositions  and  how  to  suit  correction 
to  them.  The  apple  and  the  switch^  should 
go  hand  in  hand.  It  is  a  bad  thing  if  chil- 
dren lose  their  spirit  on  account  of  parents 
and  teachers.  There  have  been  many  bun- 
gling masters  who  have  hurt  splendid  talents 
by  nagging.  Ah,  what  a  time  we  had  with 
the  lupus"^  on  Fridays  and  Donatus'  on 
Thursdays!  They  asked  strictly  of  each 
one  to  parse  *  legeris,  legere,  legitur,  lecti  mei 
ars.'  These  questions  were  like  a  trial  for 
murder.  Good  method  in  teaching  should 
note  differences  of  character  in  pupils." 

When  someone  asked  Luther  how  he  would 
interpret  the  text:  "  Provoke  not  your 
children  to  v/rath,"^  he  replied:  "  Have  you 
read  your  Terence.^  *  According  to  the 
common  practice  of  fathers,  I  daily  nagged 
him  etc.'^      This  sentence  means  that  chil- 

^  /.  r.y  reward  and  punishment. 

2  The  lupus,  or  wolf,  was  the  monitor  who  punished  the  boys 
for  not  speaking  Latin. 

^  Donatus,  on  the  Parts  of  Speech,  was  the  common  Latin 
text-book. 

*  Ephesians  vi,  4. 

'  The  reference  is  to  the  comedy  of  Terence,  Heauton^ 
timoTumenos  (The  Self-torm.entor),  Act  1,  line  49.  Menede- 
mus,  who  is  doing  penance  for  having  driven  his  only  son  from 
home  by  harsh  treatment,  regrets  that  instead  of  using  kind- 
ness he  resorted  to  force,  "  according  to  the  common  practice 
of  fathers." 

[2] 


LUTHER'S   CHILDHOOD 


dren  should  be  so  educated  that  they  are  not 
made  timid.  If  one  is  a  Demea,^  then  he 
makes  children  either  faint-hearted  or  desper- 
ate; accordingly  they  do  what  otherwise 
they  would  no  doubt  leave  undone.  Children 
ought  to  be  flogged,  but  also  they  should  be 
given  food  and  drink,  that  theymay  see  that 
we  should  like  to  have  them  virtuous.  Thus 
Solomon  says:  *  Chasten  thy  son,  but  turn 
not  thy  mind  to  his  destruction!  '^ .  One 
ought  to  educate  a  child,  where  there  is 
hope  of  success;  but  if  one  sees  that  there  is 
no  hope,  and  that  he  can  learn  nothing,  one 
ought  not  to  whip  him  to  death  on  that 
account,  but  train  him  for  something  else. 
Some  teachers  are  as  cruel  as  hangmen. 
For  instance  I  was  once  whipped  fifteen  times 
before  noon,  for  no  fault  of  mine,  for  I  was 
expected  to  decline  and  conjugate  what  I 
had  not  yet  learned.^  Anthony  Tucher  of 
Nuremberg  used  to  say:  *  Praise  and  punish- 
ment both  have  a  place  in  ruling.'  Hence 
one  should  be  kind  and  friendly  to  little  people 
and  none  the  less  continue  the  whipping." 

Luther  often  spoke  at  length  about  witch- 
craft, about  pressure  at  the  heart  and  night- 

*  See   Terence's    play,    Addphi   (The   Brothers).    Demea, 
one  of  the  brothers,  is  a  harsh  and  violent  father. 


^  Proverbs  xix,  18. 

[3] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

mare,^  and  how  his  mother  was  troubled  by 
SL  neighbor  who  was  a  witch,  to  whom  she 
was  obHged  to  be  very  respectful  and  con- 
ciHating,  for  otherwise  the  woman  plagued 
her  children  and  made  them  cry  themselves  to 
death.  A  certain  preacher  chided  her  in  a 
manner;  he  was  then  poisoned  and  died, 
for  no  medicine  could  cure  him,  for  she  took 
earth  from  his  footprints,  bewitched  it  and 
threw  it  into  the  water,  and  without  this 
earth  he  could  not  recover.  Luther  was  then 
asked  whether  such  things  could  happen  to 
pious  people.  "  Yes,"  said  he,  "  our  minds 
are  subject  to  falsehoods  just  as  our  bodies 
are  to  murders.  I  think  that  my  illnesses 
are  not  natural  but  are  mere  bewitchments. 
But  God  will  free  his  elect  from  these  evils.'' 

^"Alpdrucken"  and  "Alptraum,"  both  caused,  in   super- 
stitious belief,  by  an  incubus. 


4] 


AT  ERFURT 


2.    AT  ERFURT  UNIVERSITY,  1501- 

1505,  AND  THE  ERFURT  FRIARY, 

1505-1508,  1509-1511. 

When  Luther  wished  to  return  home  and 
was  on  the  road,  by  chance  he  struck  his 
sword  with  his  leg  and  cut  an  artery.  He 
was  then  alone  in  a  field  with  one  companion, 
about  as  far  from  Erfurt  as  Eutzsch  is  from 
Wittenberg  (half  a  mlle).^  Thereupon  the 
blood  flowed  alarmingly  and  could  not  be 
checked.  When  he  tried  to  stop  it  with  his 
finger,  the  leg  swelled  to  an  amazing  size. 
At  length  a  surgeon  was  called  from  the 
town,  who  cured  the  wound.  When  he  was 
in  danger  of  death,  he  said:  "  O  Mary, 
help!"  ("Had  I  died  then,"  said  he,  "I 
should  have  died  calling  on  Mary.")  Again 
in  bed  during  the  night  the  wound  broke 
open,  and  as  his  strength  failed  he  again 
called  on  Mary.  It  was  the  Tuesday  after 
Easter.^ 

^  The  German  mile  varied  in  different  provinces;  its  length 
was  usually  four  or  five  times  that  of  an  English  mile. 

*  The  year  of  this  incident  is  uncertain,  although  the 
editors  of  the  Weimar  edition  of  the  Table  Talk  conjecture 
that  it  occurred  in  1503.  Apparently  Luther  was  at  the 
time  a  student  of  the  University  of  Erfurt  and  was  on  his 
way  home  to  Mansfeld.  The  account  here  given  is  from  the 
notes  of  Veit  Dietrich. 

[5] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

Once  when  Luther  was  a  young  man,  he 
happened  upon  a  copy  of  the  Bible,^  where 
he  read  by  chance  the  story  of  the  mother  of 
Samuel  in  the  book  of  Kings;  the  volume 
pleased  him  exceedingly,  and  he  thought  he 
would  be  happy  if  he  could  ever  possess  one. 
A  little  later  he  bought  a  book  of  homilies^; 
this  pleased  him  greatly,  for  it  contained 
more  of  the  gospels  than  was  usually  learned 
during  a  year. 

When  he  entered  the  monastery  he  left 
behind  him  all  his  books.  He  had  secured 
a  little  before  the  Corpus  Jtiris  and  I  know 
not  what  other  books.  These  he  handed  over 
to  the  library.  He  took  none  into  the 
monastery  with  him  except  Plautus  and  Ver- 
gil. There  the  monks  gave  him  a  Bible 
bound  in  red  leather.  With  this  he  made 
himself  so  familiar,  that  he  knew  the  con- 
tents of  every  page,  and  whenever  any 
sentence  was  presented  to  him,  he  knew  at 
once  where  it  was  written.  *'  If  I  had  re- 
tained this  knowledge,''  he  said,  "  I  should 
have  been  a  wonderfully  good  biblical  con- 

*  This  was  during  his  student  days  at  Erfurt.  See  Smith, 
Martin  Luther,  p.  6.  On  another  occasion  Luther  said  that 
when  he  was  twenty  he  had  not  yet  seen  a  Bible  (see  below, 
p.  10);  if  therefore  his  memory  did  not  fail  him,  the  incident 
here  referred  to  must  have  occurred  after  1503. 

^"Postil,"  a  book  containing  expositions  of  those  portions 
of  Scripture  appointed  to  be  read  at  divine  service. 

16] 


AT   ERFURT 


cordance,"  and  he  added:  "No  study  then 
attracted  me  but  sacred  literature.  I  found 
physics  extremely  tedious,  and  my  soul 
would  burn  to  get  back  to  the  Bible.  I  used 
the  ordinary  gloss. ^  Lyra^  I  despised,  al- 
though afterwards  I  came  to  see  that  he 
was  valuable  for  history.  I  read  the  Bible, 
however,  with  diligence;  a  single  important 
sentence  would  occupy  my  thoughts  for  a 
whole  day,  and  in  the  major  prophets  there 
were  sentences  which  clung  to  me  (though  I 
could  not  comprehend  them),  and  which 
I  remember  yet,  as  that  in  Ezekiel:  *  For  I 
have  no  pleasure  in  the  death  of  him  that 
dieth,  saith  the  Lord  God;  wherefore  turn 
yourselves  and  live  ye.'  "^ 

**  I,  Martin  Luther,  entered  the  monastery 
against  the  will  of  my  father  and  left  it  to 
his  joy.  For  he  understood  the  rascality 
of  monks.  On  the  day  on  which  I  said  my 
first  mass,'*  he  said  to  me:  '  Son,  do  you  not 
know  that  you  should  honor  your  father? 
Suppose  that  itwasonly  aghost  that  you  saw.'"" 

^  The  "Glosa  Ordinaria,"  a  popular  medieval  commentary. 

^  Nicholas  de  Lyra  was  the  author  of  an  extensive  com- 
mentary on  the  Bible,  much  used  in  the  Middle  Ages. 

3  Ezek.  xviii,  32. 

*May  2,  1507;  cf.  Smith,  op.  cit.,  p.  10. 

'This  refers  to  Luther's  belief  that  he  had  been  warned  to 
enter  the  monastery  by  a  heavenly  vision,  connected  nith  a 
thunderstorm.  American  Journal  of  Psychology,  xxiv,  3G9 
(1913). 

17] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

And  when  I  began  to  say  mass  according 
to  the  rule,  I  was  so  frightened  that  I 
would  have  fled  had  I  not  been  admonished 
by  the  prior.  When  I  came  to  the  words: 
*  Thee,  most  merciful  Father,'  the  thought 
that  I  had  to  speak  to  God  without  a  media- 
tor made  me  want  to  flee  like  Judas  before  the 
world.  For  who  can  bear  the  majesty  of 
God  without  Christ  as  mediator?  As  a  monk 
I  experienced  all  those  horrors;  I  had  to  ex- 
perience them  before  I  could  fight  them." 

"  After  the  pope  by  force  and  fraud  had 
seized  all  power  and  authority,  so  that 
neither  king  nor  emperor  could  humble  him, 
then  it  had  to  be  that  the  son  of  perdition 
should  be  revealed  by  the  power  of  the  Word. 
I  came  to  the  task  unawares.  For  twenty 
years  ago  I  should  never  have  believed  that 
even  If  another  had  taught  as  I  did,  I  should 
have  condemned  the  pope,  and,  as  it  were, 
burned  him.  But  God  is  the  cause  of  such 
wondrous  works.  True,  when  I  was  a 
young  master  at  Erfurt,^  (at  which  time  I 
was  much  subject  to  melancholy),  I  applied 
myself  much  to  reading  the  Bible,  and  from 
its  text  alone  saw  the  many  errors  of  the 
papacy.     But  then,   in   the   Erfurt  library^ 

1 1505. 

2  The  library  of  the  Augustinian  convent  at  Erfurt  Is  still 
shown.    The  building  is  now  used  as  an  orphan  asylum. 

[8] 


AT  ERFURT 


I  would  think:  *  Behold  how  great  is  the 
authority  of  the  church  and  of  the  pope. 
Are  you  alone  wise?  You  also  may  err.' 
I  gave  place  to  these  thoughts  and  was  there- 
by hindered  in  reading  the  Bible.  After- 
wards, when  I  saw  the  crass  abuse  of  indul- 
gences, I  disputed  against  it.  When  they 
would  not  yield  an  inch  I  proceeded,  although 
I  alone  labored  for  three  years^  in  the  cause 
I  had  taken  up,  and  despaired  of  it.  Certain 
brothers  wrote  exhorting  me  to  constancy, 
and  one  excellent  man,  personally  unknown 
to  me,  came  to  me  in  this  very  spot^  praying 
with  tears  that  I  should  proceed  against  the 
papacy,  because  I  would  thereby  bring  great 
advantage  to  the  church.  Staupitz  en- 
couraged me  much.  When  he  was  in  Rome 
in  151 P  he  heard  the  prophecy  publicly 
proclaimed:  An  Eremite^  shall  arise  and  spoil 
the  papacy.  A  certain  Franciscan  at  Rome 
had  seen  this  in  a  vision.  But  God  guided 
the  matter  wonderfully  and  drove  me  on 
unwittingly  in  the  cause.  He  alone  has 
brought  it  so  far  that  between  the  pope  and 

MS17-20. 

'  I.e.  in  the  Augustlnian  cloister  at  Wittenberg,  later  the 
Luther  house. 

'  Staupitz  was  in  Italy  in  1510;  nothing  else  is  known  of  his 
being  there  in  1511,  but  it  is  possible.  H.  Bohmer,  Luthers 
Romfahrt,  1914,  p.  29. 

*  The  Augustinians  were  called  Eremites,  or  hermits. 

19] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

us  there  can  be  no  toleration.  For  it  does 
not  suit  the  pope  to  yield  in  one  little  error, 
and  contrariwise  it  is  not  lawful  for  us  to 
give  in  to  him  in  the  smallest  article.  Where- 
fore may  God  help  us,  should  man  fail  us. 
As  long  as  I  can  I  will  help  God  to  fight  the 
pope.  And  if  those  ranters,^  Miinzer,  Carl- 
stadt  and  the  Anabaptists  had  not  inter- 
fered, all  would  have  gone  excellently.  For 
when  I  alone  had  borne  the  brunt  of  the 
battle  they  wished  to  run  off  with  the  prize. 
They  fished  with  my  nets,  but  by  their  plan 
to  destroy  the  pope  they  really  helped  him. 
"  Thirty  years  ago  no  one  read  the  Bible;^ 
it  was  unknown  to  all.  The  prophets  were 
not  mentioned  nor  could  they  be  under- 
stood. When  I  was  twenty  years  old  I  had 
not  yet  seen  a  Bible.  I  thought  there  was 
neither  gospel  nor  epistle  except  what  was 
contained  in  the  Sunday  lessons.  At  length 
I  found  a  Bible  in  the  library,  and  when  I 
entered  the  monastery  I  began  to  read  it, 
to  reread  it  and  to  read  it  again.  Staupitz 
was    much    astonished.      In    those    days    of 

^  On  them  cf.  Smith,  op.  cit.y  chap.  xiii. 

2  Luther  speaks  on  February  22,  1538.  This  is  a  gross 
exaggeration;  the  Bible  was  apparently  much  studied  at  the 
opening  of  the  sixteenth  century,  but  the  enormous  popu- 
larity of  Luther's  translation  made  him  feel  that  it  was  com- 
paratively little  known  previously. 

1101 


AT  ERFURT 


darkness  the  pope  ruled  with  superstition 
and  guile,  whose  angelic  splendor  I  should 
never  have  dared  to  attack  had  not  St.  Paul 
in  the  clearest  words  showed  the  future 
blindness  of  the  papacy  and  had  not  Christ, 
Majesty  itself,  hurled  down  the  pope  with 
such  fulminations  as :  *In  vain  do  they  worship 
me,  teaching  for  doctrines  the  command- 
ments of  men.'^  .  .  .  When  a  certain  cardinal 
at  Rome  took  counsel  against  me  early  in 
my  career,  a  court  fool  is  reported  to  have 
said:  *  My  Lord,  follow  my  advice  and  first 
depose  Paul  from  the  company  of  the 
apostles;  he  troubles  us  more  than  the 
others.'  " 

"  Formerly  when  I  was  a  monk  they  de- 
spised the  Bible.  No  one  understood  the 
Psaltery.  They  believed  the  Epistle  to  the 
Romans  had  some  disputes  about  matters 
of  Paul's  time,  and  was  of  no  use  for  our  age. 
Scotus,  Aquinas  and  Aristotle  were  to  be 
read.  But  I  loved  the  Bible.  When  I 
began  to  apply  myself  to  the  Psalms  I  first 
tried  to  get  the  general  argument  and  then 
to  understand  the  meaning  of  every  word. 
My  Katie-  now  understands  the  Psalms 
better  than  all  the  papists.     A  doctor  once 

*  Matthew  xv,  9. 

* /.^.,  his  wife.     Luther  is  speaking  in  1540.     The  Psalms 
had  always  been  dear  to  him. 

[11] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

said:  *  The  Psaltery  is  the  book  for  the 
highest  and  holiest  theologians.'  " 

"  I  wandered  long  and  knew  not  where  I 
was.  I  felt  a  need  but  knew  not  what  it  was 
until  I  came  to  the  place  in  Romans^  *  The 
just  shall  live  by  faith.'  That  helped  me. 
There  I  saw  of  what  justice  Paul  speaks. 
In  the  text  *  justice '  came  first.  So  I 
put  together  the  abstract  and  the  concrete, 
and  came  to  know  my  trouble  and  dis- 
tinguish between  the  justice  of  the  law  and 
that  of  the  gospel.  Before  that  nothing 
helped  me,  for  I  made  no  distinction  between 
the  law  and  the  gospel.  I  thought  them  all 
one,  and  said  Christ  differed  from  Moses 
only  in  degree  and  in  time,  but  when  I 
saw  that  the  law  was  one  thing  and 
the  gospel  another  I  broke  through  my 
difficulties." 

Luther  told  a  story  of  what  had  happened 
to  him  while  a  young  monk  at  Erfurt.  He 
went  to  preach-  in  a  certain  village  and  when 

*  Romans,  i,  17.  This  experience  of  Luther,  which  stands 
at  the  head  of  his  career,  and  which  he  more  fully  describes 
elsewhere,  1545  {Opera  latina  varii  argumenti,  i,  15ff)  has  been 
placed  in  different  years.  It  probably  occurred  in  1515;  see 
"Luther's  development  of  the  doctrine  of  Justification  by 
Faith,"  Harvard  Theological  Review,  vi,  240  (1913). 

*  "terminatum."  Explained  by  referring  to  Du  Cange: 
Glossarium  mediae  et  in-fimcB  latince:  Terminarii  apud  Ordines 
Mendicantes  dicuntur  qui  habendis  per  agros  cuique  conventui 
addictos  concionibus  destinantur. 

[12] 


AT  ERFURT 


he  was  ready  to  say  mass  the  village  priest^ 
began  to  sing  the  Kyrie  eleison  and  the 
Paternoster  to  the  accompaniment  of  a  lute. 
"  So  I  had  to  say  mass  though  I  could  hardly 
keep  from  laughing.  For  I  was  not  used  to 
such  an  organ  and  had  to  sing  my  Gloria  in 
excels  is  to  his  Kyrie  ^ 

"  When  I  was  a  monk  I  did  not  want  to 
omit  any  of  the  prescribed  prayers,  and 
when  I  was  pressed  by  lecturing  and  writing 
I  often  could  not  say  the  appointed  hours  for 
a  whole  week,  or  sometimes  for  two  or  three 
weeks.  Then  I  would  take  two  or  three  days 
off,  and  would  eat  and  drink  nothing  until 
I  had  said  all  the  prayers  omitted.  That 
made  my  head  so  crazy  that  for  hours  to- 
gether I  never  closed  my  eyes,  and  became 
deathly  sick  and  went  out  of  my  senses. 
And  when  I  got  better  and  tried  to  read, 
suddenly  my  head  would  go  bad  again. 
Thus  God  drew  me  as  it  were  by 
force  from  that  rack  of  prayer.  So  you 
see  how  much  I  was  captive  to  the  tra- 
ditions of  men.  Wherefore  I  easily  forgive 
those  who  find  difficulty  in  assenting  to  my 
doctrine.^' 

"  At  Erfurt  one  time  I  said  to  Dr.  Staupitz: 
*  My  dear  doctor,  our  Lord  God  treats  people 

'  "custos."     See  Du  Cange. 

113] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

too  abominably!  Who  can  serve  him  when 
he  strikes  people  down  right  and  left,  as  he 
does  many  of  our  adversaries? '  Dr.  Staup- 
itz  replied:  *  Learn,  I  beg  of  you,  to  look  at 
God  differently.  If  he  did  not  do  this,  how 
could  he  quell  the  obstinate?  God  is  fighting 
in  a  good  cause,  that  he  may  save  us,  who 
otheiivise  would  be  oppressed.'  His  treat- 
ment of  our  adversaries  made  clear  to  me  at 
Coburg^  the  meaning  of  those  words  in  the 
decalogue:  '  I  am  a  jealous  God.'  For  the 
punishment  meted  out  to  them  is  not  so 
cruel  as  our  defence  is  necessary.  Thus 
they  say  that  Zwingli  has  perished,  whose 
error,  had  it  prevailed,  would  have  destroyed 
us  along  with  our  church.  It  is  a  judgment 
of  God.  The  Swiss  have  always  been  a 
proud  people.  The  others,  the  papists, 
our  Lord  God  will  also  find.  The  Zwing- 
lians  called  God  *  a  God  made  bread,'  ^  but 
now  it  will  come  to  pass  that  he  will  be  an 
iron  God  to  them.  CEcolampadius  called 
the    Lord's    Supper    [as     celebrated    by   the 

*  Luther  is  speaking  in  1531.  In  the  preceding  year  he 
spent  six  months  at  Coburg,  during  the  deliberations  of  the 
Diet  of  Augsburg. 

*  "Impanatum  Deum."  An  allusion  to  the  sacramentarian 
controversy.  Luther  insisted  on  the  real  presence  of  Christ's 
body  in  the  bread  of  the  eucharist;  Zwingli  said  then  that 
hisGod  was  not  "incarnate"  or  "made  flesh,"  but  "impanate" 
or  "made  bread." 

fl41 


AT  ERFURT 


Lutherans]  the  feast  of  Thyestes/  flesh- 
eating,  blood-drinking,  etc.  We  now  say  to 
them,  *  Here  you  have  what  you  have  sought. 
God  once  said  that  he  would  not  hold  him 
guiltless  who  took  his  name  in  vain.'  It 
was  exceedingly  blasphemous  to  call  God 
'  made  bread '  and  us  flesh-eaters,  blood- 
drinkers  and  God-devourers.  The  same  thing 
will  happen  to  our  papists,  who  have  bur- 
dened themselves  with  the  blood  of  the 
righteous,  and  God  grant  that  they  become 
like  a  withered  tree,  which  in  the  spring 
puts  forth  no  shoots.  They  say  themselves 
that  they  intend  to  suppress  our  teaching  or 
lose  all.  Amen.  Let  it  be  as  they  desire! 
How  can  our  Lord  God  better  requite  them 
than  to  give  them  what  they  wish?  " 

*  According  to  the  story  Thyestes  was  invited  to  a  banquet 
at  which  was  served  up  to  him  the  flesh  of  his  own  children. 


[IS 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


3.  THE  JOURNEY  TO  ROME, 
DECEMBER  1510. 

"  At  Rome  there  is  a  temple  [the  Pantheon], 
which  I  saw,  with  a  round  hole  in  the  roof, 
and  a  high  vault  supported  by  marble  pillars 
which  three  of  us  could  hardly  reach  around. 
On  the  vault  above  are  painted  all  the  gods, 
Jupiter,  Neptune,  Mars  and  Venus  as  they 
were  called.  These  gods  conspired  to  drive 
the  world  mad,  but  Jesus  Christ  came  and 
prevented  them  and  swept  them  away. 
Then  came  the  popes  to  strive  against  him, 
but  who  knows  how  long  they  will  stand?  " 

"  If  there  is  a  hell,  Rome  stands  on  it. 
I  believe  that  Peter  was  at  Rome,  even  if 
it  cannot  be  proved  from  Scripture.  Paul 
preached  throughout  the  whole  of  Asia 
Alinor  and  the  Turkish  country." 

"  The  pope  and  his  followers  have  perished 
by  trusting  to  force,  for  if  they  had  used 
moderation,  zounds  I^  what  might  they  not 
have  obtained?  But  the  papacy  deserved 
to  perish,  which  they  themselves  confessed 
when  I  was  at  Rome.     The  papal  court  was 

*  The  expletive  used  by  Luther  is  potz  tausentfa,  mi,  re,  for 
which  there  is  hardly  an  equivalent  in  English.  See  Grimm's 
WorUrhuch,  6,  a,  83. 

[161 


JOURNEY  TO  ROME 


then  called  the  fountain  of  justice,  but  I 
learned  that  it  was  a  harlot.  Campeggio^ 
said  at  Augsburg:  *  Cajetan  has  destroyed 
this  cause  by  attempting  to  use  force  in  a 
matter  that  called  for  wise  counsel  and 
strategy.'  " 

Mentioning  the  city  of  Rome,  Luther  said: 
"  Since  now  the  Lord  God  has  got  me  into 
this  dreadful,  hateful  business,  I  would  not 
have  missed  seeing  and  hearing  what  I  did 
at  Rome  for  a  hundred  thousand  florins. 
I  had  to  guard  myself  constantly  lest  I  should 
commit  some  ofl'ence  against  God;  but  what 
we  see,  we  relate.  For  Bembo,^  a  very 
learned  man,  said,  after  he  had  carefully 
considered  the  matter,  that  Rome  was  the 
cess-pool  of  humanity  and  of  the  whole 
world.     And  someone  has  written: 

*  Who  seeks  to  live  a  holy  life,  from  Rome 
must  take  his  flight, 
For  everything  is  there  allowed,  except  to 
be  upright.' 

Before  the  time  of  the  Reformation,  there 
were,  quite  frequently,  men  who  scourged 
Rome's  wickedness  in  the  city  itself;    there 

*  Cardinal  Campeggio  was  present  at  the  Diet  of  Augsburg 
in  1530  as  papal  legate. 

2  A  distinguished  humanist,  the  Latin  secretary  of  Leo  X. 

1171 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


was  one  Louis,  a  Franciscan,  and  Giles  of 
Viterbo,  an  Augustinian,  and  two  other 
preachers,  who,  when  they  had  severely 
censured  the  morals  of  the  papacy,  were 
found  one  morning  with  their  tongues  cut 
out.  The  pope's  name  is:  *  Touch  me  not! '  " 
And  then  he  related  the  story  of  a  certain 
Jew,  who,  being  about  to  accept  the  Christian 
faith,  confessed  to  a  priest  that  he  intended 
to  visit  Rome  first  and  inspect  the  head  of 
Christendom  before  he  was  baptized.  The 
priest  sought  earnestly  to  dissuade  him  from 
this  plan,  fearing  lest,  having  seen  the 
scandalous  conditions  at  Rome,  his  opinion 
of  Christianity  would  change,  but  the  Jew, 
having  journeyed  thither,  and  having  seen 
the  many  horrible  things  there,  returned  to 
the  priest  and  consented  to  be  baptized, 
saying:  "  Now  I  will  gladly  accept  the  God  of 
the  Christians,  for  he  is  so  patient;  if  he  can 
suffer  such  knavery  as  exists  at  Rome,  he 
can  easily  bear  all  the  sins  of  the  world. 
For  our  God  is  pretty  angry,  and  has  tor- 
tured us,  his  own  people,  in  various  ways.''^ 
"  Rome  as  I,  Luther,  saw  it,  is  a  whole 
mile~  square,  being  as  wide  as  from  here  to 
Pollersberg.     So    far    as    one    can    judge,  it 

'  This  story  is  the  second  in  Boccaccio's  Decameron. 
-  A  German  mile,  about  four  and  a  half  English  miles. 

[18] 


JOURNEY  TO  ROME 


covers  the  whole  plain."  And  then  he  read 
from  histories  the  number  of  the  Roman 
citizens:  twenty  years  before  the  birth  of 
Christ,  5,100,000  citizens;  not  long  after 
that  the  number  of  Roman  citizens  was 
6,900,000.  Then  Amsdorf^  said  that  the 
city  still  commanded  500,000  men.^  Erfurt 
has  18,000  houses,  Venice  300,000.  Nurem- 
berg is  scarcely  half  the  size  of  Erfurt. 

"  Great  is  the  power  of  the  devil,  and  he  is 
able  to  bewitch  our  eyes  and  minds,  as  he 
has  done  with  the  tunic^  of  Christ,  and  the 
image*  of  Christ  which  the  Elector  has,  and 
the  nun  who  put  the  cowdung  on  her  head 
and  imagined  that  she  wore  a  crown. ^ 
Anna  Lamenit,  known  as  the  Ursula  of 
Augsburg,  was  not  deceived  herself,  but  she 
deceived  others.  I  met  her  at  Augsburg,^  and 
asked  whether  she  was  willing  to  die,  but  she  re- 
plied :  *  Faith,  no!  How  it  goes  there  I  do  not 
know;    but  how  it  goes  here,  that  I  know.'  " 

*  Nicholas  von  Amsdorf,  Luther's  most  devoted  follower. 

2  An  absurd  exaggeration.  According  to  Gregorovius  the 
population  of  Rome  in  1527  before  the  city  was  sacked  was 
85,000,  after  the  sack,  32,000.  Rome  in  the  Middle  Ages, 
VIII,  556  no/^  646. 

f  3  Luther  refers  to  the  seamless  coats  of  Christ  exhibited  at 
various  places. 
I    *  This  had  movable  hands.     See  below,  p.  82f. 

»  See  Luthers  Werke,  Weimar  Ed.  I,  409. 

•  He  saw  the  maid,  who  pretended  that  she  ate  nothing, 
in  1511  on  his  way  back  from  Rome. 

[19] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


4.  TEACHING  AT  WITTENBERG, 
1508-9,  AND  1511-46. 

Someone  said:  "  It  is  a  wonder  that  such 
a  university  has  arisen  at  Wittenberg  among 
these  Vandals."  Luther  answered:  "God 
said  to  himself:  *  I  must  raise  up  a  university 
where  I  can  make  a  preacher  or  two,  for  all 
the  rest  have  failed.' 

"  Formerly  there  was  enough  money  and 
sufficient  salaries,  for  there  were  many 
students.  Now  there  are  many  splendid 
minds,  but  the  students  are  almost  forced  to 
beg.  Here  we  sit  at  Wittenberg  in  a  carrion 
land.  For,  according  to  Dr.  PoUich,^  Wit- 
tenberg is  at  the  end  of  civilization.  If  we 
went  a  little  further  we  should  be  in  the  midst 
of  barbarism." 
A  "  It  is  too  much  for  a  human  being  to 
believe  that  God  is  gracious  to  him;  the 
human  mind  cannot  grasp  it.  [  How  was  it 
in  my  case?  I  shrank  back  once  in  terror 
from  the  sacrament,  which  Dr.  Staupitz 
carried  at  Eisleben  in  the  Corpus  Christi 
procession.^     On  this  occasion  I  walked  with 

^  Martin  Pollich  of  Mellerstadt,  first  rector  of  the  University 
of  Wittenberg,  founded  in  1502. 

2  Probably  in  1515. 

[201 


•i  ^ 

=;  S 


a.^' 
._  »* 
^~^  b 


^^ 


<a-s; 


TEACHING  AT   WITTENBERG 

the  rest  and  had  on  the  dress  of  a  priest. 
Afterwards  I  confessed  to  Dr.  Staupitz,  and 
he  said  to  me:  *  You  have  not  the  right  idea 
of  Christ.'  His  words  consoled  me  greatly.] 
Such  is  our  nature  that  although  Christ 
offers  himself  to  us  with  the  remission  of  our 
sins,  yet  we  flee  from  his  face,  just  as  I  once 
fled  in  my  boyhood  days,  when  we  were 
singing  for  sausages.^  At  that  time  a  towns- 
man cried  out,  in  fun:  *  What  are  you  doing, 
you  young  scamps?  The  devil  take  you!* 
At  the  same  time  he  ran  towards  us  with 
two  sausages.  I  and  my  companion  took 
to  our  heels,  fleeing  the  gift  which  was  being 
ofl'ered  us.  We  act  in  exactly  the  same  way 
toward  God;  he  gave  us  Christ  and  all  sorts 
of  gifts,  and  yet  we  flee  him  and  think  of 
him  as  our  judge.'* 

Luther  said  concerning  the  university  at 
Wittenberg:  "  I  warned  Dr.  BriicF:  '  Who- 
ever after  my  death  disdains  the  authority  of 
this  university,  —  if  indeed  church  and  uni- 
versity last  so  long;  for  at  Antioch,  Con- 
stantinople and  at   Rome   also   there   were 

*  An  incident  of  his  school  days  at  Eisenach,  where  he  was 
"obliged  to  help  himself  after  the  manner  of  poor  scholars, 
who,  as  he  tells  us,  went  about  from  door  to  door  collecting 
small  gifts  or  doles  by  singing  hymns."  Koestlin,  Liff  of 
Luther,  p.  14. 

*  Gregory  Briick,  often  called  Pontanus  (1483  or  I486- 
1557),  at  this  time  chancellor  of  Electoral  Saxony. 

121] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

excellent  academies  and  yet  they  perished  — 
he  is  a  heretic  and  a  perverse  man;  for  God 
has  revealed  in  this  university  his  Word, 
and  today^  this  university  and  city  may  be 
compared  with  all  others  both  as  to  doctrine 
and  as  to  life,  although  we  are  not  wholly 
without  fault  in  respect  to  the  latter.' 

"  Whoever  today  are  the  greatest  agree 
with  us,  as  Amsdorf,^  Brenz^  and  Rhegius;"* 
they  seek  our  friendship  and  correspond  wuth 
us.  But  whoever  flee  from  us  and  secretly 
scoff  at  us  have  abandoned  the  faith  as 
Jeckel  and  Grickel,^  and  Zwingli,  too,  who 
have  learned  everything  alone  and  nothing 
from  us.  Who  knew  anything  twenty-five 
years  ago.''  Who  stood  by  me  twenty-one 
years  ago,^  when,  against  my  will  and  knowl- 
edge, God  led  me  into  this  game.^  Ah,  vain- 
glory ^  brings  misfortune!  '* 
^  1540. 

2  Nicholas  von  Amsdorf  (1483-1565),  professor  at  Witten- 
berg. 

^  John  Brenz  (1499-1570)  a  prominent  reformer  at  Swabian 
Halle.     Life  by  G.  Bayer,  1899. 

♦Urban  Rieger  (Regius  or  Rhegius,  1489-1541),  also  a 
prominent  reformer,  at  this  time  at  Zell  in  Brunswick-Liine- 
burg. 

'  "Jeckel  and  Grickel,"  nicknames  for  James  Schenk  and 
John  Agricola,  charged  with  antinomianism  and  expelled  from 
Saxony.    Cf.  Smith,  op.  cit.,  282-5. 

•Luther  is  speaking  in  August,  1540. 

^  Kej-oSo^to,  Philippians,  ii,  3. 

122] 


TEACHING  AT  WITTENBERG 

"  The  poorest  youths  are  the  most  stu- 
dious, for  Christ,  himself  poor,  wishes  to 
build  up  his  poor  kingdom  through  poor 
men.  The  rich  young  gentlemen,  loaded 
down  with  purse  and  possessions,  do  not 
study." 


231 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


5.  THE  THESES  ON  INDULGENCES, 

1517. 

"  I  like  Fleck.^  He  is  a  man  full  of  com- 
fort and  his  words  are  consolatory.  He 
wrote  me  a  letter,  a  splendid  one,  immediately 
after  I  had  published  my  Theses.  I  would 
give  ten  gulden  to  have  it  now.  Its  purport 
was  about  as  follows:  *  Venerable  Doctor, 
proceed!  Press  forward !  These  papal  abuses 
always  displeased  me  too,  etc'  The  monks 
were  also  angry  at  him,  for  he  said  to  those 
at  Steinlausig:  *  There  is  a  man  who  will  do 
something.'  He  never  said  a  mass,  which 
was  a  good  sign." 

Fleck  was  Prior  of  the  Franciscans  at  Steinlausig. 


124] 


INTERVIEW  WITH  CAJETAN 


6.  THE  INTERVIEW  WITH  CARDINAL 
CAJETAN  AT  AUGSBURG, 
OCTOBER,  1518. 

"The  cardinal  at  Augsburg  said  of  me: 
*  That  brother  has  deep  eyes  and  so  must 
have  strange  fancies  in  his  head.'^ 

"  I  went  to  Augsburg  when  first  cited, 
with  a  safe-conduct  from  the  elector,  who 
recommended  me  to  the  care  of  the  citizens 
of  Augsburg,  begging  that  they  should  take 
care  of  me  and  not  let  me  converse  with  the 
Italians  nor  trust  in  them.  For  I  knew  not 
how  serious  the  matter  was.  I  was  at  Augs- 
burg three  days  without  a  safe-conduct  from 
the  emperor.  In  the  meantime  an  Italian^ 
came  to  summon  me  to  the  cardinal  and  to 
urge  me  to  recant.  He  said:  *  Only  utter 
this  one  word,  revoco,  then  the  cardinal  will 
commend  you  to  the  pope  and  you  will 
return  with  glory  to  your  elector.'  After 
three  days  had  elapsed  the  bishop  of  Trent 
in  the  name  of  the  emperor  showed  my  safe- 
conduct  to  the  cardinal.     Then   I  went  to 

*  Myconius,  Ilistoria  Reformationis,  p.  30,  also  tells  this 
story.  The  same  remark  has  been  attributed  to  Dr.  Martin 
Pollich,  the  rector  of  Wittenberg.  Cf.  Kostlin-Kawerau, 
i,  87. 

'  Urban  de  Serralonga.     Cf.  Smith,  op.  cit.,  48f. 

(25) 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

him  as  a  suppliant,  first  throwing  myself  on 
my  knees,  then  bowing  to  the  earth  and  then 
falling  flat  on  my  face,  and  only  rising 
humbly  after  the  cardinal  had  thrice  asked 
me  to  do  so.  This  greatly  pleased  him,  for 
it  gave  him  hope  of  victory.  But  on  the 
second  day  after  I  refused  to  recant,  he  said: 
'  What  do  you  think  the  pope  cares  for 
Germany?  Do  you  suppose  the  princes  will 
defend  you  by  arms? '  —  *  No  '  —  '  Then 
where  will  you  live  ? '  —  '  Under  heaven.' 
Such  was  the  miserable  insolence  of  the  pope. 
It  is  more  bitter  than  death  to  him  to  have 
his  dignity  and  majesty  despised,  but  now 
he  can't  help  it.  At  that  time  the  pope 
humbled  himself  in  a  way  by  writing  to  the 
elector,  or  rather  to  Spalatin  and  Pfeffinger,^ 
asking  that  they  should  hand  me  over  and 
execute  his  mandate.  He  also  wrote  to  the 
elector:^  *  Although  you  are  personally  un- 
known to  me,  yet  I  saw  your  father  Ernest 
at  Rome,  a  most  obedient  son  of  the  church, 
and  a  devout  professor  of  religion.  I  hope 
your  Highness  will  follow  his  example.' 
But  the  elector  knew  this  unwonted  humihty 
of  the  pope  was  due  to  his  bad  conscience 

»  To  both  on  October  24,  1518.    P.  Smith,  Luther's  Coru- 
spondence^  i,  127. 

^  August  23,  1518.    Luther's  Correspondence,  i.  105. 

[261 


INTERVIEW  WITH   CAJETAN 

because  he  feared  the  power  of  Scripture. 
For  my  Resolutions^  had  circulated  through 
almost  the  whole  of  Europe  in  a  few  days. 
So  the  elector  was  encouraged  not  to  follow 
their  commands  but  to  submit  to  the  judg- 
ment of  Scripture.  Had  the  cardinal  at 
Augsburg  acted  more  moderately  and  re- 
ceived me  as  a  suppliant,  things  would  never 
have  gone  so  far.  For  up  to  that  time  I 
knew  but  little  of  the  errors  of  the  pope. 
Had  he  kept  quiet  I  should  have  done  the 
same.  For  it  was  the  Roman  custom  when 
an  obscure  and  intricate  question  came  up 
for  the  pope  to  say:  *  We  reserve  this  to  our- 
selves by  virtue  of  our  pontifical  authority,' 
and  thus  he  would  quash  it.  Then  both 
sides  are  forced  to  keep  silence.  I  believe 
the  pope  would  giv^e  three  cardinals  to  have 
the  matter  in  the  same  condition  now  as  it 
was  in  then." 

"  You  know  not  under  what  shadows  we 
were  in  papal  times.  Gerson^  was  the  best 
doctor,  for  he  began  the  revolt,  although 
unconscious  of  his  trend.  Nevertheless  he 
raised  the  question  whether  the  papal  power 
should  be  obeyed  in  all  things,  and  answered 

^A  work  written  in  defence  of  the  Theses,  1518.  Smith, 
Luther,  p.  44. 

-  The  French  cardinal  distinguished  at  the  Council  of  Con- 
stance.   He  lived  from  1363  to  1429. 

127J 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

that  it  was  not  a  mortal  sin  to  disobey 
unless  it  were  done  contumaciously.  He 
dared  not  drive  the  wedge  home.  Yet 
he  comforted  the  people  who  called  him  the 
consoling  teacher.  He  was  condemned  for 
it.  The  cardinal  at  Augsburg  called  me  a 
Gersonist  because  I  appealed  from  the  pope 
to  a  council."^ 

*Text:  "the  Council  of  Constance/'  a  mistake  of  the  note- 
taker. 


2K] 


RETURN  FROM  AUGSBURG 


7.  LUTHER'S  RETURN  FROM 
AUGSBURG,  1518. 

When  Luther  had  gone  to  Augsburg  to 
meet  Cajetan  and  had  refused  to  recant, 
he  was  deserted  by  all  human  defenders, 
by  the  emperor,  by  the  pope,  by  the  cardinal 
legate,  by  his  own  prince,  Frederic,  Elector 
of  Saxony,  by  his  monastic  order  and  by  his 
most  intimate  friend  Staupitz.  Prince  Fred- 
eric did  not  welcome  him  back  from  Augs- 
burg, nor  had  he  persuaded  him  to  go  there. 
Somewhat  discouraged  by  this  desertion, 
he  took  counsel  with  himself  as  to  where  he 
would  go.  In  Germany  there  was  no  hope. 
In  France  it  was  not  safe  on  account  of  the 
threats  of  the  pope.  Being  therefore  in  the 
greatest  perplexity,  he  returned  to  Saxony. 
On  the  first  day  he  journeyed  from  Augs- 
burg to  Monheim.  He  had  a  hard  trotting 
nag,  no  long  trousers  but  only  knee  breeches; 
neither  knife  nor  gun,  nor  spurs,  yet  thus  he 
made  the  journey  all  the  way  to  Witten- 
berg. When  he  came  thither  Charles  von 
Miltitz,  a  nobleman  from  the  papal  court, 
was  there.  The  latter  had  seventy  letters  from 
the  pope  addressed  to  the  princes  and  the 
bishops  to  the  effect  that  they  should  seize 

1291 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

Luther  and  send  him  to  the  pope  at  Rome. 
Prince  Frederic,  fearing  lest  he  might  be 
compelled  by  the  authority  of  the  pope  to 
seize  him,  indicated  to  him  that  he  should 
betake  himself  to  some  other  place  where  he 
might  safely  lie  concealed.  He  was  forced 
to  obey  the  prince.  And  so  he  invited  his 
friends  to  take  a  meal  with  him  that  he  might 
bid  them  good-bye,  though  he  was  uncer- 
tain as  to  where  he  was  going.  As  they  were 
about  to  sit  down  letters  arrived  from  Spala- 
tin^  indicating  that  the  prince  was  amazed 
that  he  had  not  yet  gone,  and  that  he  should 
therefore  hasten  his  departure.  He  was  greatly 
affected  by  this  message,  thinking  that  he  had 
been  abandoned  by  all,  but  a  little  later 
becoming  again  hopeful,  he  said:  "  Father 
and  mother  forsook  me,  but  the  Lord  took 
me  up. "2  Not  long  afterwards,  while  they 
were  still  at  table,  other  letters  arrived  with 
a  message  from  Spalatin  to  the  effect  that  if 
he  had  not  yet  gone  he  should  remain,  for 
Miltitz  had  proposed  to  the  prince  that  the 
affair  could  be  settled  by  a  colloquy  or  debate. 
The  prince  giving  heed  to  a  more  just  opinion, 
kept  the  doctor,  who  has  remained  at  Witten- 
berg even  to  the  present  day,  July  30,  1535. 

*  Spalatin  was  the  prince's  private  secretary. 
2  Psalm  xxvii,  10. 

[301 


FAILURE  OF  VON  MILTITZ 


8.  CHARLES  VON  MILTITZ  FAILS 

TO  ARREST  THE  HERETIC. 

1519. 

Charles  von  Miltltz  is  known  from  the 
letter^  of  Luther  to  Leo  X.  The  pope  sent 
him  to  the  Elector  of  Saxony  with  the  golden 
papal  rose,  which  was  then  a  great  gift  and  a 
singular  mark  of  the  pope's  favor  and  which 
it  was  the  custom  to  send  with  peculiar 
solemnity.  Now  the  reason  for  this  gift 
was  this,  that  Prince  Frederic  might  feel 
grateful  to  the  pope  and  send  him  Luther 
as  a  captive  in  charge  of  Charles  von  Miltitz. 
For  this  purpose  the  pope  had  given  Charles 
seventy  apostolic  letters,  as  they  are  called, 
in  order  that  he  might  be  permitted  to 
journey  in  safety  through  the  various  cities 
with  the  captive  Luther.  These  are  not 
false  things  that  P  write,  for  Luther  said  that 
he  had  heard  them  from  Charles  himself  at 
Altenburg.  And  Charles  certainly  came  to 
Germany  with  great  hope  of  accomplishing 
his  mission,  but  in  this  he  was  greatly  mis- 
taken.    For  he  himself  said  that  in  the  more 

^Of  March  3,  1519.  De  VVette,  Luther s  Brief e.  No.  cxxlv. 
This  letter  was  never  sent.  Cj,  P.  Smith,  Luther's  Corrc' 
spondence,  vol.  i,  p.  166. 

*  Veit  Dietrich  makes  these  notes  in  1532. 

131] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

important  cities  of  Germany  he  had  made 
mention  of  Luther  in  various  places  and  that 
all  were  so  stirred  up  over  the  new  fame  of 
his  doctrine  that  even  though  he  had  an 
army  of  thirty  thousand  Swiss  soldiers,  he 
would  despair  of  bringing  Luther  all  the 
way  through  Germany  to  Rome. 


32] 


THE  DIET  OF  WORMS 


9.  THE  DIET  OF  WORMS,  APRIL, 
1521. 

"  I  will  kill  Cochlaeus  by  silence  only.^ 
He  is  a  little  fool  with  his  arguments  and  his 
dogmas;  I  will  let  him  stick  in  them  and 
not  answer  him.  Was  I  not  heard  at  Augs- 
burg? Did  I  not  appear  at  Worms  even 
after  they  had  violated  my  safe-conduct ?- 
For  I  was  cited  by  the  emperor's  herald  on 
the  second  day  of  that  painful  week,  but  I 
was  condemned  on  the  fourth  day,  and  my 
books  were  burned  before  I  came  to  Erfurt 
and  my  condemnation  was  affixed  to  the 
gates  of  the  city  and  in  other  public  places. 
As  I  was  on  the  journey  to  W^orms  the  herald 
asked  me  if  I  really  expected  to  appear  there. 
I,  though  trembling,  answered:  '  I  will 
come  if  all  the  devils  are  there.'  When  I 
was  near,  Bucer  came  to  meet  me,  instigated 
by  the  emperor's  confessor  [Glapion]  to 
warn  me  not  to  enter  Worms  unless  I  wished 
to  be  burned,  and  to  advise  me  to  withdraw 

*  Luther  is  speaking  in  September,  1532;  for  the  moment 
he  is  thinking  of  a  book  written  against  him  by  John  Dobneck, 
usually  called  Cochlaeus. 

*  Luther  considered  the  mandate  of  Charles  V  commanding 
his  books  to  be  delivered  to  the  magistrates  a  violation  of 
the  implied  agreement  that  he  should  not  be  condemned  until 
he  had  been  heard. 

331 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH   LUTHER 

to  the  protection  of  Francis  von  Sicklngen. 
But  I  went  on,  and  when  I  had  arrived  was 
entertained  by  the  elector's  councillors. 

"  None  of  the  princes  came  to  meet  me  but 
the  nobility  made  much  of  me.  Some  of 
them  submitted  [to  the  emperor]  four 
hundred  articles  against  the  clergy  and  proved 
them  by  my  preaching.  The  Catholics  were 
more  frightened  than  I  was;  they  dreaded 
a  rising,  for  the  pope  had  stirred  the  people 
up  and  had  written  that  my  safe-conduct 
should  not  be  respected.  To  this  request 
the  princes  were  unwilling  to  accede.  When 
summoned  I  came  into  the  assembly  of  the 
princes  and  the  emperor.  First  I  was  asked 
if  the  books  were  mine;  I  replied:  *  I  think 
so.'  Dr.  Jerome  Schurff  said:  'Let  the 
titles  be  read.'  Asked,  in  the  second  place, 
if  I  would  recant  I  made  a  distinction.  I 
said  I  could  not  revoke  doctrinal  statements, 
for  they  were  the  Word  of  God,  but  if  my 
books  contained  intolerable  invective  I  made 
no  great  matter  of  it  and  would  let  it  be 
pointed  out  to  me.  A  day  and  a  night  were 
given  me  to  consider.^  Then  the  bishops 
treated  with  me  about  recanting.  I  said 
to  them:  *  God's  Word  is  God's  Word,  which 

*  Apparently  something  has  been  omitted  here,  describing 
Luther's  second  appearance  at  the  Diet,  April  18.  Cf. 
Smith,  Luther^  113ff. 

[34] 


THE   DIET  OF  WORMS 


I  cannot  recant.  In  the  rest  I  will  gladly 
obey/  Margrave  Joachim  of  Brandenburg 
said  that  I  should  leave  it  to  the  emperor 
and  asked  if  they  were  not  also  Christians? 
I  answered:  *  Let  the  Scripture  be  kept  safe; 
I  cannot  give  up  what  is  not  mine.'  The 
committee  of  bishops  urged  that  I  ought  to 
trust  their  judgment  as  to  what  was  right. 
I  answered:  *  I  do  not  trust  you  enough  to 
believe  that  you  would  decide  for  me  against 
yourselves,  since  you  have  already  con- 
demned me  while  I  was  coming.'  .  .  .  Then 
Cochlaeus  came  to  me  and  said  if  I  would 
waive  my  safe-conduct  he  would  dispute 
with  me.  SchurfF  said:  *  That  would  be 
unfair.  Who  would  be  so  foolish?'  But  I 
would  have  done  it  in  my  simplicity.  .  .  . 
After  that  Vehus,  chaplain  of  the  Margrave 
of  Baden,  invited  me  to  recant,  making  a 
splendid  oration,  and  saying  that  I  owed 
much  to  brotherly  love,  much  to  obedience 
to  the  emperor,  and  much  to  the  duty  of 
avoiding  scandal.  I  answered:  'True,  but 
I  owe  more  to  Christ.'  Then  Dr.  Eck, 
chancellor  of  Trier,  said:  *  Luther,  though 
disobedient  to  the  emperor  you  are  allowed 
to  go  in  peace.  Do  not  preach  on  the  road, 
and  look  out  for  yourself  after  the  expiration 
of    your    safe-conduct.'     I    answered:     *  As 

1351 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

the  Lord  pleased  it  has  come  to  pass.  You 
also  must  look  out  for  yourself.'  Thus  I 
won  great  glory  at  Worms  and  they  wished 
the  beer  back  in  the  bottles.  As  I  supported 
my  position  from  the  Bible,  Duke  George 
always  said:  *  Then,  gentlemen,  my  subjects 
must  not  be  allowed  to  have  it.'  But  I 
knew  nothing  of  their  wiles.  The  Elector 
Frederic  once  said:  *  I  did  not  think  they 
would  act  so.'  Then  the  Edict  went  out 
against  all  Lutherans,  which,  however,  the 
Catholics  wished  to  recall  immediately.  Thus 
it  went  with  me  at  Worms  where  the  Holy 
Spirit  alone  supported  me." 

"  I  could  not  easily  tell  with  what  wonder- 
ful schemes  and  tricks  they  sought  to  pre- 
vent my  going  to  Worms  and  appearing 
before  the  emperor,  in  order  that  they  might 
calumniate  me  by  saying  that  I  had  fled  the 
light.  First  they  condemned  me  in  a  public 
warrant,^  burning  my  books  and  affixing  my 
condemnation  to  the  doors  throughout  Ger- 
many. This  they  did  by  the  advice  of  the 
Archbishop  of  Mainz  who  was  then  all 
powerful  with  the  emperor.  They  wished  to 
send   Glapion,    the    emperor's    confessor,  to 

*  Shortly  before  Luther's  appearance  at  Worms  Charles  V 
issued  a  mandate  ordering  his  books  to  be  delivered  up  and 
burned. 

[36] 


-<3 


•^  SI, 


Js  bra 

g   ^^ 

-Si  ^ 

^^    ^ 
a  <«>  sj 

^J   «   •-. 


^2 


THE  DIET  OF  WORMS 


Francis  von  Sickingen  at  Ebernbiirg;  thither 
they  summoned  me  through  Bucer,  saying 
that  Glapion  had  something  about  which  he 
wished  to  treat  secretly  with  me.  All  this 
the  Archbishop  of  Mainz  arranged,  in  order 
to  delay  my  journey,^  for  but  a  few  days 
remained  to  me  of  the  time  allowed  by  my 
safe-conduct.  Then  I  did  not  know  their 
frauds.  Christ  has  overcome  the  cunning 
of  my  adversaries  through  my  simplicity, 
for  the  pope  shall  be  utterly  destroyed." 

^Luther  arrived  at  Worms  April  16,  1521,  the  last  day 
allowed  him  by  his  safe  conduct.  Had  the  plot  to  delay  him 
succeeded  he  would  not  have  been  able  to  appear  before  the 
Diet  at  all. 


137] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


10.  THE  CONTROVERSY  WITH 
CARLSTADT,  1523. 

When  Luther  had  been  summoned  by  the 
elector^  to  recall  from  their  insane  opinions 
those  whom  Carlstadt-  had  corrupted,  he 
came  to  Kahla,  a  village  of  Thuringia.  There, 
in  the  place  where  he  was  to  preach,  the 
followers  of  Carlstadt  had  placed  a  crucifix, 
which  they  had  cut  into  many  pieces  in 
order  to  show  their  hatred  of  it.  He  said 
that  he  was  indeed  deeply  grieved,  but, 
nevertheless,  because  he  saw  that  it  was  an 
insult  of  the  devil,  he  had  gone  up  and 
preached  without  referring  to  the  matter  in 
any  way.  "  I  did  this,"  said  he  "  to  show 
the  devil  that  I  also  could  be  haughty; 
for  there  is  no  better  way  to  conquer  Satan, 
if  he  is  thus  proudly  insulting,  than  to  ignore 
him." 

"  If  Carlstadt  believes  that  there  is  any 
God  in  heaven  or  earth,  may  Christ  my  Lord 
never  be  kind  nor  gracious  to  me.  That  is  a 
terrible    imprecation,    but    my    reason    for 

*  Frederic  the  Wise,  August,  1523. 

2  Andrew  Bodenstcin  of  Carlstadt  (c.  1480-1541),  one  of 
Luther's  colleagues  at  Wittenberg,  and  an  earnest  reformer. 
They  fell  out  over  the  doctrine  of  the  Real  Presence,  which 
Luther  asserted  and  Carlstadt  denied. 

138] 


CONTROVERSY  WITH   CARLSTADT 

making  it  is  this:  Dr.  Carlstadt  knows  that 
concerning  the  bread  and  wine  we  do  not 
utter  bubbles  nor  hisses,  but  that  we  speak 
the  holy,  heavenly  words  of  God  Almighty, 
which  Christ  himself  spoke  with  his  holy 
mouth  at  the  last  supper,  and  commanded 
to  be  spoken.  And  as  Carlstadt  knows 
that  we  have  God's  word,  and  yet  dares 
deliberately  to  cry  out  against  it,  to  mock 
it  and  laugh  it  to  scorn  as  a  human  hissing 
and  blowing,  thus  destroying  the  poor  people 
with  such  lies  and  poison,  and  as  he  shows  no 
fear,  hesitation  nor  remorse  at  doing  so,  but 
only  manifests  joy  and  pleasure  in  such  wick- 
edness, how  can  he  believe  or  think  that  God 
exists?  He  is  possessed  Avith  devils  not  a 
few.  Well,  let  it  pass;  he  will  soon  find  out 
that  there  is  a  God,  if  he  hasn't  already. 
If  God  doesn't  grant  him  that,  then  I,  too, 
will  say  there  is  no  God.  But  in  friendship 
I  warn  Dr.  Carlstadt  to  repent;  he  has  de- 
layed long  enough,  soon  a  change  will  come. 
O  dear  God,  what  don't  we  do  when  thou 
lettestus?  "1 

"  Carlstadt  is  a  most  striking  example  of 
hypocrisy.  Deserting  the  university,  he 
moved  with  all  his  effects  into  the  country, 

^  This  saying  was  recorded  by  Erasmus  Alber,  who  heard 
it  at  Luther's  table  in  December,  1540.  Published  in  Archiv 
fur  Reforynationsgeschichte,  xi,  141  (1914). 

[39  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH   LUTHER 

and  I  have  seen  him  standing  in  the  dung 
with  bare  feet,  loading  manure  on  a  cart, 
after  the  manner  of  the  peasants.'* 

"  Miinzer,  Carlstadt  and  Campanus  are 
very  devils  incarnate,  for  they  think  of 
nothing  except  to  do  harm  and  revenge 
themselves." 


[40] 


MARRIAGE  AND  FAMILY  LIFE 


11.  MARRIAGE  AND  FAMILY 
LIFE. 

"  God  knows,"  said  Luther,  "  that  I  had 
no  thought  of  going  so  far  in  this  matter 
as  I  have  gone.  I  thought  only  to  attack 
indulgences.  If  anyone  had  told  me,  when 
I  was  at  the  Diet  of  Worms:  *  In  six  years 
you  will  have  a  wife  and  be  sitting  at  home,' 
I  should  not  have  believed  it."^ 

To  show  his  approval  of  marriage  Luther 
said:  "  Before  I  was  married  I  had  decided 
that,  should  I  become  unexpectedly  ill,  I 
should  like  to  have  some  girl  wedded  to  me 
on  my  death  bed,  in  order  to  confound  the 
pope  who  has  cast  down  and  dishonored 
this  estate  more  than  can  be  said.  He  and 
his  impious  rules  are  as  bad  as  Sodom. "^ 

Little  Hans^  said  gravely  as  he  was  sitting 
at  table:  "What  fun  it  must  be  in  heaven 
to  eat  and  jump  and  play.  There  is  a  river 
of  milk  there,  and  nice  breakfast  rolls  grow 
of  themselves."  "  A  child's  life  is  the  hap- 
piest,"   said    the    doctor,    "  for    he    has    no 

*  Luther  said  this  in  1532,  seven  years  after  his  marriage 
and  eleven  years  after  the  Diet  of  Worms. 

*  Luther  married  Catharine  von  Bora,  June  13,  1525. 

*  Luther's  eldest  son,  born  June  7,  1526. 

141] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

political  cares  nor  ecclesiastical  abuses  to 
contend  with,  nor  does  he  fear  death  nor 
future  infirmity,  but  sees  only  the  good." 

Once  he  said  to  Hans:  "How  much  do 
you  suppose  you  cost  me  in  a  year?  "  The 
boy  answered:  "  O  father,  you  don't  have  to 
buy  the  bread  and  milk,  but  the  apples  and 
pears  must  cost  a  lot."^  "  Thus,''  moralized 
the  doctor,  "  men  despise  God's  daily  gifts, 
but  esteem  highly  what  are  really  trifles." 

"  Cruciger's  baby  was  baptized  Theodore, 
but  I  say  that  common  names  are  best.^ 
Everyone  expected  a  rare  name  when  my 
eldest  son  was  born;  they  said  I  ought  to 
give  him  a  new  name  as  I  had  brought  so 
many  new  doctrines  into  the  world." 

"  My  boy  Hans  is  now^  entering  his  seventh 
year.  Every  seven  years  a  person  changes; 
the  first  period  is  infancy,  the  second  child- 
hood. At  fourteen  they  begin  to  see  the 
world  and  lay  the  foundations  of  education, 

^  The  child  naively  supposed  that  the  milk  and  bread  cost 
nothing,  since  the  former  came  from  the  cow  and  the  latter 
was  made  by  his  mother,  doubtless  from  home-grown  wheat. 
The  explanation  offered  by  the  editor  of  the  Weimar  edition 
of  the  Table  Talk,  that  Hans  was  probably  not  present  when 
the  flour  and  meat  were  bought,  but  was  no  doubt  on  hand 
when  the  fruit  was  purchased,  seems  not  to  agree  with  the 
first  sentence  of  Hans's  answer. 

^  The  name  Theodore  was  extremely  rare  in  Germany  at 
that  time. 

^  June  7,  1532.     Luther  was  then  nearly  forty-nine. 

[42] 


S  5i 


8  -Si 

'3    "3 

Vi 

w  *-> 
•^  o 
■**  J:^ 

^^ 

(JO 
«^ 

■^^^ 

^1^ 


s 


MARRIAGE  AND   FAMILY  LIFE 

at  twenty-one  the  young  men  seek  marriage, 
at  twenty-eight  they  are  house-holders  and 
patres-familias,  at  thirty-five  they  are  magis- 
trates in  church  and  state,  until  forty-two 
when  they  are  kings.  After  that  the  senses 
begin  to  decline.  Thus  every  seven  years 
brings  a  new  condition  in  body  and  character, 
as  has  happened  to  me  and  to  us  all." 

Taking  his  child  Martin^  the  doctor  said, 
"  If  you  become  a  lawyer  I  will  hang  you  on 
the  gallows.  You  must  be  a  preacher,  bap- 
tize, dispense  the  sacrament,  visit  the  sick 
and  comfort  the  sorrowful. 

"  What  cause  have  you  given  me  to  love 
you  so?  How  have  you  deserved  to  be  my 
heir.'^  By  making  yourself  a  general  nuisance. 
Do  you  deserve  that  we  should  care  for  you 
and  get  you  a  nurse?  And  why  aren't  you 
thankful  instead  of  filling  the  house  with  your 
howls  ?  " 

As  his  baby  was  being  taken  to  bed  he 
said:  "  Go  to  sleep,  dear  little  boy.  I  have 
no  gold  to  leave  you,  but  a  rich  God.  Only 
be  good." 

January  28,  1533,  in  the  first  hour  of  the 
night,  a  third  son  was  born  to  Dr.  Martin 
Luther  whom  he  called  Paul.  His  sponsors 
were  the  most  illustrious  Duke  John  Ernest, 

^  Born  November  9,  153  L 

143  J 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

John  Loser,  Jonas,  Melanchthon  and  the 
wife  of  Caspar  Lindener.  Luther  greeted 
Loser  as  he  came  up  with  the  words:  "  I 
am  troubling  you  again,  sir.  Today  a  new 
pope  has  been  born;  you  will  help  the  poor 
fellow  to  his  rights."  After  the  child  had 
been  baptized  he  invited  the  sponsors  to 
dinner,  and  I,  Lauterbach,  served  the  meal. 
They  talked  in  most  friendly  wise,  and  among 
other  things  Luther  said:  "I  have  called 
him  Paul,  for  St.  Paul  has  given  me  many  a 
good  saying  and  argument,  wherefore  I 
wished  to  honor  him.  May  God  give  him 
grace!  I  will  send  my  children  away  to 
educate  them,  one  to  be  a  soldier  with  Loser, 
one  to  study  with  Jonas  and  Melanchthon 
and  one  to  work  with  some  peasant.'* 

"Weeds  grow  fast;  therefore  girls  grow 
faster  than  boys.*' 

On  Sunday,  March  3,  1538,  Luther  held 
a  symposium  of  his  kingdom.  Songs  were 
sung  and  every  one  recited  a  Psalm  or  gospel 
text  or  some  of  the  catechism  or  a  prayer  as 
he  was  asked.  Sometimes  they  hesitated 
through  timidity.  He  said:  "What  will 
happen  at  the  last  judgment  when  impious 
men  are  openly  condemned  and  have  to 
plead  their  cause?  The  majesty  of  that 
judgment  is  great  and  all  men  are  compelled 

L44] 


MARRIAGE  AND   FAMILY  LIFE 

to  dread  it.  Let  the  wicked  prosper  here 
in  their  presumption  and  contumacy;  they 
must  all  await  that  judgment.  There  all 
their  glory  will  vanish  and  the  thoughts  of 
all  men  and  of  Satan  himself  will  be  published. 
Therefore  not  without  reason  do  Paul  and 
the  other  apostles  confidently  await  this 
judgment  of  the  wicked."  Then  a  servant 
recited  a  verse  from  Psalm  ex,  "  The  Lord 
hath  sworn  and  will  not  repent,  *  Thou  art 
a  priest  forever  after  the  order  of  Mel- 
chizedek.'  '*  The  doctor  said:  "  That  is  the 
fairest  and  noblest  verse  in  the  whole  Psal- 
tery, where  God  sets  forth  this  Christ,  who 
alone  deserves  to  be  a  bishop  and  supreme 
pontiff,  and  none  other  but  he.  It  can- 
not be  Caiaphas  nor  Annas,  nor  Peter 
nor  Paul,  but  he  and  he  alone  will  be 
priest.  That  I  swear,  that  he  alone  shall 
be  priest;  therefore  flee  to  him.  I  remember 
the  use  made  of  this  text  in  the  Epistle  to 
the  Hebrews."^ 

"  He  who  takes  a  wife  ought  to  be  a  good 

*  There  is  diversity  in  the  reading  of  this  text.  That  of 
Meyer:  Ueber  Lauterbachs  und  Aurifabers  Sammlungen  der 
Tischreden  Luthers,  p.  38,  is  here  followed  in  preference  to 
that  given  in  Seidemann:  Lauterbachs  Tagebuch  auf  das  Jahr 
1538,  p.  44f,  notwithstanding  the  fact  that  Professor  G. 
Kawerau,  in  an  article  in  the  Theologische  Literaturzeitung^ 
supports  Seidemann.  The  incident  will  remind  the  reader 
of  Burns's  poem:  "The  Cotter's  Saturday  Night." 

145  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

man,  but  Hans  Metzsch^  is  not  worthy  of 
this  divine  gift,  for  a  good  woman  deserves 
a  good  husband.  To  have  peace  and  love 
in  marriage  is  a  gift  which  is  next  to  the 
knowledge  of  the  Gospel.  There  are  heart- 
less wretches  who  love  neither  their  children 
nor  their  wives;   such  beings  are  not  human. 

"  The  greatest  blessing  is  to  have  a  wife 
to  whom  you  may  entrust  your  affairs  and 
by  whom  you  may  have  children.  Katie, 
you  have  a  good  husband  who  loves  you. 
Let  another  be  empress,  but  you  give  thanks 
to  God."2 

"  The  faith  and  life  of  young  children  are 
the  best  because  they  have  simply  the  Word. 
We  old  fools  have  hell  and  hell-fire;  we  dis- 
pute concerning  the  Word,  which  they  accept 
with  pure  faith  without  question;  and  yet  at 
the  last  we  must  hold  simply  to  the  Word 
as  they  do.  It  is  moreover  a  trick  of  the 
devil,  that  we  are  drawn  by  our  business 
affairs  away  from  the  Word  in  such  a  manner 
that  we  do  not  know  ourselves  how  it  hap- 
pens.    Therefore   it  is   best  to  die  young." 

1  Hans  Metzsch  was  bailiff  of  Wittenberg.  On  another 
occasion  Luther  said  of  him:  "I  have  excommunicated  my 
captain  on  account  of  his  immorality,  and  I  am  unwilling 
that  he  should  participate  in  our  sacraments." 

2  Another  report  of  Luther's  conversation  has  it  that  he  said 
to  his  wife:  "You  are  an  empress;  recognize  it  and  thank  God." 

[461 


MARRIAGE  AND   FAMILY  LIFE 

To  his  infant  child  Luther  said:  "  You  are 
our  Lord's  little  fool.  Grace  and  remission 
of  sins  are  yours  and  you  fear  nothing  from 
the  law.  Whatever  you  do  is  uncorrupted; 
you  are  in  a  state  of  grace  and  you  have 
remission  of  sins,  whatever  happens." 

Playing  with  his  child,  Magdalene,  he 
asked  her:  "  Little  Lena,  what  will  the 
Holy  Christ  give  you  for  Christmas  .f*  "^ 
And  then  he  added:  "The  little  children 
have  such  fine  thoughts  about  God,  that  he 
is  in  heaven  and  that  he  is  their  God  and 
father;  for  they  do  not  philosophize  about 
him." 

As  Magdalene  lay  in  the  agony  of  death,^ 
her  father  fell  down  before  the  bed  on  his 
knees  and  wept  bitterly  and  prayed  that 
God  might  free  her.  Then  she  departed 
and  fell  asleep  in  her  father's  arms.  Her 
mother  was  also  in  the  room  but  farther 
from  the  bed  because  of  her  grief. 

As  they  laid  her  in  the  coffin  he  said: 
"  Darling  Lena,  it  is  well  with  you.  You 
will  rise  and  shine  like  a  star,  yea  like  the 
sun.  ...  I  am  happy  in  spirit  but  the  flesh 
is  sorrowful   and   will   not   be   content;    the 

^  This  was  shortly  before  Christmas,  1531,  when  Magdalene 
was  about  two  and  a  half  years  old. 
2  September  20,  1542. 

[47] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

parting  grieves  me  beyond  measure.  It  is 
strange  that  she  is  certainly  in  peace  and 
happy  and  yet  I  so  sorrowful.  ...  I  have 
sent  a  saint  to  heaven. 

"  We  should  care  for  our  children,  and 
especially  the  poor  little  girls.  I  do  not  pity 
boys;  they  can  support  themselves  in  any 
place  if  they  will  only  work,  and  if  they  are 
lazy  they  are  rascals.  But  the  poor  little 
race  of  girls  must  have  a  staff  to  lean  upon. 
A  boy  can  go  to  school  and  become  a  fine 
man  if  he  will.  But  a  girl  cannot  learn  so 
much  and  may  turn  to  shame  to  get  bread 
to  eat." 

As  his  wife  was  still  sorrowful  and  wept  and 
cried  aloud,  he  said  to  her:  "  Dear  Katie, 
think  how  it  is  with  her,  and  how  well  off 
she  is.  But  flesh  is  flesh  and  blood  blood 
and  they  do  as  their  manner  is;  the  spirit 
lives  and  is  willing.  Children  doubt  not,  but 
believe  as  we  tell  them;  all  is  simple  with 
them;  they  die  without  pain  or  anguish 
or  doubt  or  fear  of  death  just  as  though  they 
were  falling  asleep.'' 

"  Aunt  Lena^  would  you  like  to  go  back 
to   the  convent.^  '*     "  No,   indeed,'*  she  re- 

*  Magdalene  von  Bora,  Catharine's  aunt,  who  had  been  a 
nun  with  her  at  Nimbschen  came  to  live  at  the  Black  Cloister 
after  her  niece's  marriage  to  Luther. 

[48] 


MARRIAGE  AND   FAMILY  LIFE 

plied.  Then  mistress  Felicitas  von  Selmen- 
itz  asked  her  why  she  did  not  want  to  go 
back.  Luther  said:  "  And  I  ask,  in  general, 
why  women  do  not  want  to  remain  un- 
married?" No  one  answered  but  all 
laughed.  v 

Speaking  of  female  beauty  Luther  re-  ^. 
called  what  Martin  Bucer  had  said:^  *'  Doc-  j 
tor,  our  women  would  be  pretty  if  their 
coloring  were  not  misplaced.  They  have 
fine  red  eyes,  pale  white  lips,  yellow  teeth 
and  black  necks,  whereas  they  ought  to 
have  red  cheeks,  white  faces  and  black  eye-  / 
brows."  While  he  was  saying  this  three 
youths,  one  of  whom  was  George  Kaufmann,^ 
came  in  drunk,  holding  in  their  hands  gob- 
lets, and  drinking  to  lute-players  and  other 
youths  who  preceded  them.  Dr.  Martin 
Luther  looked  at  them  sternly  and  said: 
"Drink  until  some  misfortune  befall  you! 
Such  as  you  will  never  reach  old  age,  for  the 
best  part  of  mankind  perishes  by  drinking  too 

'  Luther  speaks  on  some  day  between  October  28  and 
December  12,  1536  (Kroker,  Luthers  Tischreden  in  der  Mathe- 
sischen  Sammlung,  no.  707c).  Bucer  had  been  in  Wittenberg 
during  the  last  days  of  May  at  the  time  the  Wittenberg 
Agreement  was  drawn  up,  and  had  dined  with  Luther  on 
May  27.  It  was  doubtless  at  that  time  that  the  conversation 
here  recalled  took  place.     Cf.  Smith,  Luther^  p.  294. 

'  Luther's  nephew,  an  orphan,  who,  with  his  brothers  and 
sisters,  was  long  sheltered  by  the  Reformer. 

149] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

much.  I  was  lately  at  court  preaching  right 
fiercely  against  drink,  but  it  does  no  good. 
Taubenheim  and  Minckewitz  said  that  it 
could  not  be  otherwise  at  court,  and  that 
music  and  all  knightly  games  had  declined 
and  only  drinking  was  honored.  And  our 
elector,^  a  really  robust  man,  can  stand  a 
lot  of  drinking.  What  is  necessary  to  satisfy 
his  natural  thirst  is  enough  to  make  his 
neighbor  drunk.  .  .  .  If  I  go  again  to  see  the 
prince,  I  will  certainly  request  him  to  com- 
mand all  his  subjects  everywhere  to  swill 
themselves  full;  perhaps  if  they  are  required 
to  drink,  they  won't,  for,  as  Ovid  says,  '  We 
strive  for  the  forbidden  and  desire  what  we 
may  not  have.'  " 

February  22  (1538)  the  doctor's  wife 
complained  of  the  disobedience  of  the  serv- 
ants. He  replied:  "They  are  so  bad  that 
they  need  a  ruler  like  the  Turk  who  could 
treat  them  as  they  deserve,  and  measure  out 
for  them,  day  by  day,  their  work  and  rations 
as  Pharaoh  did  to  the  children  of  Israel  in 
the  Exodus.  Such  disobedience  provokes 
God's  wrath  and  tempts  him  to  send  us  the 
Turk." 

"  '  Give  and  it  shall  be  given  unto  you.' 
That  is  a  true  saying  which  makes  the  world 
*  John  Frederic,  elector  1532-47. 

[50] 


MARRIAGE  AND   FAMILY  LIFE 

rich  and  poor.  Those  who  give  nothing, 
thinking  to  leave  more  to  their  children, 
keep  nothing.  Poverty  comes  upon  them, 
as  has  happened  to  many  rich  men  and  will 
happen  again.  Misers  and  Turks  lay  up 
riches  for  their  children  but  the  proverb 
shall  come  true,  '  the  third  heir  shall  not 
enjoy  badly  gotten  gain.'  Contrariwise  to 
him  who  gives  shall  be  given.  My  house 
observes  that  rule.  I  will  not  boast  but  I 
know  what  I  give  each  year  in  my  house. 
Chancellor  Briick  said:  'If  the  elector  gave 
him  a  noble's  income,  his  household  could  not 
stand  the  strain  of  his  liberality,  and  yet 
he  has  only  three  hundred  gulden  a  year! 
But  God  gives  enough  and  blesses  it,  and  I 
also  will  give.  Dear  Katie,  if  we  are  ever 
out  of  money  we  must  sell  our  cups;  we  must 
keep  giving  if  we  want  anything  more." 

"  God  is  the  protector  and  provider  of  the 
poor,  as  I,  who  spend  more  than  my  salary, 
certainly  experience.  I  have  never  written, 
preached,  nor  taught  for  pay,  for  the  two 
hundred  gulden^  given  me  by  the  elector  are 
a   free  gift.     Who   has   Christ  has   enough. 

'  Luther's  salary  prior  to  his  marriage  in  1525  was  100  gulden 
(350  or  £10)  and  his  board;  it  was  then  raised  to  200;  in  1532 
to  300  and  in  1536  to  400,  apparently  the  regular  salary  of 
a  professor.  Luther  had,  in  addition,  his  house,  and  many 
gifts  and  pensions.     Cf.  Smith,  Luther^  366ff. 

[51] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

Wherefore  I  would  never  work  for  money, 
though  I  might  as  well  have  become  rich 
had  I  wished  to  make  as  much  as  possible." 

"  God  has  given  me  all  things  without 
price.  The  printers  offered  me  four  hundred 
gulden  per  annum  for  my  manuscripts,  but 
I  declined  them,  not  wishing  to  sell  God's 
free  gifts.  God  has  wonderfully  saved  me 
from  that  snake  the  papacy;  if  I  have  been 
scratched  the  pope  has  not  escaped  with  a 
whole  skin  but  has  been  tolerably  well 
beaten.  I  have  enough,  and  thank  God 
who  has  given  me  a  wife  and  children,  that 
fair  blessing;  and  the  elector  who  volun- 
tarily gives  me  three  hundred^  gulden  per 
annum.  Formerly  I  said  that  after  I  had 
married  I  would  take  money  for  lecturing, 
but  as  God  anticipated  my  need  through  the 
elector  I  have  never  sold  a  manuscript  nor 
lectured  for  money  my  whole  life  long,  and 
I  will  go  to  the  grave  with  this  boast,  *  having 
food  and  raiment,  therewith  to  be  content.'  " 

"  If  I  live  another  year  my  poor  little 
room^  must  go,  the  one  from  which  I  stormed 

*Text  "two  hundred,"  one  of  the  many  mistakes  of  the 
note-takers.  The  saying  was  said  on  July  1,  1539,  when 
Luther  was  receiving  three  hundred  gulden  cash  and  one 
hundred  in  kind.  In  1540  he  reckons  his  income  now  at 
three,  now  at  four  hundred. 

'^  Luther  speaks  in  1532.  Extensive  alterations  were  made 
in  the  Black  Cloister  on  account  of  the  fortifications  erected 

[52  1 


MARRIAGE  AND   FAMILY  LIFE 

the  papacy  and  which  is  on  that  account 
worthy  of  perpetual  memory.  But  the 
cannon  and  fortifications  and  princes  eat  it 
away  from  me,  for  they  persuade  the  elector 
to  do  it.  They  hate  us  so  heartily  that  they 
tried  to  prevent  the  young  prince^  from  study- 
ing, saying:  *  Gracious  Lord,  why  should 
he  need  great  learning?  Are  you  going  to 
make  a  clerk  out  of  him? '  For  they  feared 
that  if  taught  he  would  read  history  and  so 
see  their  wiles.  With  these  crafty  words 
the  Elector  Frederic^  could  not  be  moved. 
They  are  doubly  possessed  of  the  seven  deadly 
sins,  and  their  malice  surpasses  all  malice. 

Ernest  von  S is  a  merchant;    is  that, 

too,  noble?  They  are  all  malicious;  is  that 
Christian? 

"  Great  houses,  as  the  Elector  Frederic 
once  said,  mean  great  cares,  small  houses, 
small  cares,  and  so  those  who  are  ambitious 
to  live  in  large  houses  do  not  realize  that 
they  are  preparing  trouble  for  themselves." 

by  the  electors  in  the  wall  near  by.  Cf.  Smith,  Luther,  p.  364. 
Kroker  located  the  little  room  in  the  high  passage-way  then 
existing  between  the  main  building  and  the  outhouses  east  of 
it.  It  is  possible,  however,  that  it  was  in  a  tower  between 
the  Cloister  and  the  town  wall  to  the  west.  Cf.  Grisar, 
Luther^  i,  319flt,  and  Smith,  Luther's  Correspondence^  i,  183. 

^  John  Frederic,  who  succeeded  his  father  John  in  August, 
1532. 

''John  Frederic's  uncle,  elector  until  May,  1525. 

153  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

When  Luther's  wife  was  lamenting  the 
fact  that  there  were  only  three  bottles  of 
beer  left,  he  said  to  her:  "  That  doesn't 
matter  so  long  as  the  head  of  the  family  is 
God,  who  can  easily  make  four  out  of  three." 

"  God  denied  to  women  all  authority  in 
public  affairs,  as  we  see,  because  they  have 
not  the  strength  for  office  in  either  the  state 
or  the  church." 

"  Women  have  by  nature  the  art  of  speech, 
which  men  acquire  only  by  great  industry. 
But  it  is  in  household  affairs  that  this  is  true; 
in  public  life  this  rhetorical  ability  does  not 
avail.  For  that,  men  have  been  created, 
not  women." 

"  My  advice  to  all  who  wish  to  marry  is 
that  they  should  not  treat  the  matter  as  a 
joke.  And  do  not  follow  simply  the  inclina- 
tions of  the  flesh,  but  pray,  pray.  For  once 
having  taken  a  wife,  it  is  not  permitted  to 
draw  back  if  the  affair  should  turn  out  badly; 
for  the  wife  given  in  marriage  is  herself  a 
dowry.  Simply  pray,  for  it  is  necessary. 
If  moreover  the  wife  should  be  disagreeable, 
she  must  be  borne  with,  for  she  belongs  in  the 
home." 
1^  "  If  I  had  to  marry  again,  I  would  hew 

me  an   obedient  wife  out  of  stone;    for  I 
despair  of  the  obedience  of  all  other  women." 

[541 


MARRIAGE  AND   FAMILY  LIFE 

"  Satan  plots  incessantly  to  destroy  con- 
jugal happiness,  for  he  knows  it  is  a  great 

gift." 

When  one  day  Luther's  wife  was  upholding 
her  authority  pretty  insistently  he  said  to 
her  with  feeling:  "  You  may  claim  for  your- 
self the  control  over  the  affairs  of  the  house, 
saving,  nevertheless,  my  just  rights.  Female 
government  has  accomplished  no  good  since 
the  world  began.  When  God  constituted 
Adam  master  of  all  creatures,  they  were  safe 
and  governed  in  the  best  way,  but  the  inter- 
vention of  woman  spoiled  all;  for  that  we 
have  you  women  to  thank,  and  therefore  I 
am  not  willing  to  endure  your  rule." 

"  Poor  people  who  marry  in  God's  name 
and  become  rich  are  much  more  numerous 
than  rich  people  who  marry  for  money  and 
remain  rich.  Morlin's  father^  marries  a 
poor  but  handsome  girl  for  love,  though  he 
hasn't  even  bread  in  the  house.  Now  God 
bestows  on  him  a  good  living  and  has  given 
him  fine  children,  for  God  thinks:  '  It  is  my 
ordinance,  I  must  give  him  enough.'  I,  too, 
had  nothing,  and  afterwards  I  wished  to 
write  and  teach  without  pay,  but  God  be- 
stowed   on    me    four    hundred    gulden    [per 

*  Jodocus  Morlin,  father  of  Joachim,  had  been  professor 
of  metaphysics  in  Wittenberg;  at  this  time  (1540)  he  was 
pastor  in  Westhausen.     Kroker,  op.  cit.,  p.  178. 

[55] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

annum].  At  that  time  I  had  a  salary  of 
about  five  and  a  half  dollars/  but  the  in- 
spectors took  it  away  from  me  and  gave  me 
nothing  else." 

"  Among  the  Jews  every  man  had  to  marry 
about  the  age  of  nineteen;  few  or  none  were 
permitted  to  wait  till  the  twentieth  year. 
Benjamin  had  ten  sons,  but  not  his  daughter, 
before  his  thirty-third  year,  when  he  moved 
into  Egypt.  Therefore  the  number  of  the 
people  was  great,  and  they  lived  close  to 
one  another.  They  trusted  much  to  num- 
bers, and  on  that  account  had  to  marry  early. 
The  bearing  of  children  they  held  in  high 
esteem.  Our  women  simply  detest  the  bring- 
ing of  children  into  the  world,  for  the  reason 
that  they  dislike  the  trouble  of  rearing  and 
educating  them  and  prefer  a  life  of  ease. 
We  see  in  comedies  that  among  the  Greeks 
also  there  was  love  of  progeny.  Among  the 
Jews  it  was  not  only  a  shame  not  to  have 
children,  but  there  was  also  the  fear  of  God's 
wrath.  Therefore  Elizabeth  held  it  for  such 
a  great  blessing  that  the  reproach  of  being 
barren  had  been  removed  from  her.''^ 

When  Luther's  father  was  asked  by  Coe- 
lius,  the  preacher  at  Mansfeld,  whether  he 

*  9  alte  schock.    An  altes  schock  seems  to  have  been  a  sum 
of  money  about  equal  to  sixty  cents. 
2  Luke  i,  25. 

[56] 


MARRIAGE  AND   FAMILY  LIFE 

believed  in  those  things  which  are  presented 
to  us  in  the  confession  of  faith,  he  answered: 
**  He  must  be  a  scoundrel  who  would  not 
believe  that."  Luther:  "  That  reminds  one 
of  the  old  days  [of  unquestioning  faith]!" — 
Melancthon:  **  Happy  are  they  who  thus 
die  in  the  knowledge  of  Christ,  as  your 
Magdalene  has  already  died.  For  the  older 
we  grow  the  more  foolish  we  grow,  which  is 
proved  by  the  fact  that  the  younger  people 
cling  with  simplicity  to  the  articles  of  faith; 
as  they  learned  them  so  they  believe  them. 
But  when  we  become  old,  then  we  begin  to 
dispute;  we  try  to  be  clever,  but  we  are 
nevertheless  the  greatest  fools." 

"  The  human  heart,"  said  Luther,  "  is 
able  to  bear  neither  good  nor  bad  fortune. 
If  we  have  enough  money  and  material  goods, 
then  there  is  no  rest;  if  we  are  in  poverty, 
then  there  is  no  joy.  Midway  between 
these  extremes,  however,  there  is  happiness, 
which  is  to  be  content  with  one's  lot." 

"  I  am  richer  than  all  the  papal  theologians 
in  the  whole  world,  for  I  am  contented  with 
what  I  have.  I  have  three  children^  born  in 
honorable  wedlock,  which  no  papal  theologian 
has.  Again  I  am  richer  than  all  the  nobles 
in   the  land,    although    I    rob   my    gracious 

*  Hans,  Magdalene  and  Martin.     This  was  in  1532. 

[57] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


prince,  in  order  that  I  may  be  of  use  to 
others."^ 

"  I  dislike  to  write  letters,  but  whoever 
gets  one  from  me  Is  likely  to  have  me  for  a 
good  friend.  Thus  Queen  Mary^  said  to  the 
youth  who  brought  to  her  a  letter  from  me: 
*  I  see  that  Dr.  Martin  Luther  likes  me.' '' 

"  I  think  all  day  long  that  I  am  dying, 
and  still  I  can't  die.  Who  will  free  me  from 
this  mortal  body?  "^ 

"  Nothing  tastes  good  to  me  any  more, 
neither  food  nor  drink.  I  am  already  dead. 
If  I  were  only  burled!  " 

"  The  papists  are  longing  eagerly  for  my 
death.  But  when  I  am  dead,  then  my  real 
life  will  begin;  for  the  seed  does  not  spring 
up,  till  first  it  has  fallen  to  the  ground." 

When  an  excellent  medicine  was  given  to 
Luther  for  the  relief  of  his  head,  he  replied: 
"  My  best  prescription  is  written  in  the  third 
chapter  of  John:  '  For  God  so  loved  the 
world,  that  he  gave  his  only  begotten  son, 
that  whosoever  belleveth  in  him  should  not 
perish,  but  have  everlasting  life.'  That  Is 
the  best  medicine  that  I  have." 

1  Luther  frequently  begged  the  elector  to  help  others,  but 
he  never  asked  anything  for  himself. 

*  Mary  of  Hungary.  Luther  dedicated  to  her  some  Con- 
solatory Psalms,  November  1,  1526.  Enders,  v,  402 f., 
DeWette,  iii,  132f. 

'This  was  in  1532,  fourteen  years  before  his  death. 

158] 


MARRIAGE  AND  FAMILY  LIFE 

At  another  time  Luther  said:  "I  am  so 
ill!  But  no  one  believes  it,  nor  will,  till  I  go 
the  way  of  all  the  others.  Now,  dear  Lord, 
you  had  me  when  I  was  well,  you  must  also 
have  me  when  I  am  sick;  as  wives  say  to 
their  husbands:  *  You  had  me  when  I  was 
young,  so  you  must  have  me  now  that  I  am 
old.'  " 

"Many  good  things  come  from  a  wife: 
the  blessing  of  the  Lord,  children,  community 
of  all  things  and  other  things  so  good  that 
they  might  overwhelm  a  man.  Suppose 
there  were  no  women,  not  only  the  house 
and  household  but  even  the  state  would 
perish.  Even  if  we  could  beget  children 
without  women  we  could  not  get  along  with- 
out them." 

"  Mere  lust  is  felt  even  by  flees  and  lice; 
love  begins  when  we  wish  to  serve  others." 

Anthony  Lauterbach  told  Dr.  Luther  that 
the  Archbishop  of  Mainz  thought  ill  of  his 
call  to  the  diaconate,  saying  that  he  was  a 
layman,  not  yet  consecrated  by  orders. 
Anthony  had  replied  to  the  archbishop's 
officer  that  he  had  been  ordained  through  his 
wife,^  for  they  were  one  body.  Luther 
called  this  an  excellent  answer  to  that  prelate. 

*  Lauterbach  married  a  nun  named  Agnes  in  1533,  the  same 
year  in  which  he  was  given  the  position  of  deacon,  first  at 
Leisnig  and  then  at  Wittenberg. 

[59J 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

Then  he  told  a  story  about  a  husband  who, 
after  heavily  eating  and  drinking  mocked 
his  hungry  wife,  saying:  "Aren't  you 
satisfied?  I  have  done  nothing  but  eat  and 
drink  the  whole  day,  and  didn't  you  taste  it? 
Are  we  not  one  body?  "  The  next  day  she 
stayed  away  the  whole  day,  eating  and  drink- 
ing, but  preparing  nothing  for  him,  and  when 
he  returned  derided  him  with  the  same  words, 
"  Man  and  wife  are  one  body." 

Martin  Luther  gazed  at  the  painting^  of 
his  wife,  and  said:  "  I  will  have  a  husband 
painted  for  it,  and  send  it  to  Mantua^ 
asking  whether  they  prefer  marriage  or 
celibacy."  Then  he  began  to  commend 
marriage  as  a  divine  institution,  from  which 
all  things  flow,  and  without  which  the  world 
would  be  empty,  and  all  creatures  useless 
since  they  were  made  on  man's  account, 
"  Therefore  were  it  not  for  Eve  and  her 
breasts,  no  other  institution  could  have  fol- 
lowed. Inspired  by  the  Holy  Ghost  Adam 
called  his  wife  by  a  splendid  name.  Eve,  that 
is,  mother;  he  did  not  say  *  woman,'  but 
*  mother,'  and  added  *  of  all  living.'^  Here 

*  Lucas  Cranach  painted  Catharine  Luther  in  1525,  and 
several  times  later.  One  of  these  pictures  doubtless  hung 
on  the  wall. 

'  I.e.y  to  the  Council  summoned  to  meet  at  Mantua  in  1537, 
to  which  the  Lutherans  were  invited. 

*  Genesis,  iii,  20. 

[60] 


p:jRTRAIT  of  CATHERINE  LUTHER 
■*■      By  Cranach.     Original  in  Milan 


MARRIAGE  AND  FAMILY  LIFE 

you  have  the  glory  of  woman,  namely  that 
she  is  the  fountain  of  all  living  men.  The 
words  were  short,  but  such  an  oration  as  De- 
mosthenes and  Cicero  never  composed,  for 
it  is  an  oration  of  the  most  eloquent  Holy 
Ghost,  and  worthy  of  our  first  parent. 
He  it  is  who  thus  declaims,  and  when  such 
an  orator  speaks  and  praises,  we  may  well 
connive  at  all  in  which  a  woman  fails.  Christ 
the  Saviour  did  not  despise  her,  but  entered 
into  her  womb.  To  this  Paul  alludes  when 
he  says,  *  A  woman  shall  be  saved  by  child- 
bearing.'  "^ 

"  The  highest  grace  of  God  is  that  love 
should  always  be  strong  in  marriage.  The 
first  love  is  fervid,  a  drunken  love,  blinding 
us  and  leading  us  on;^  but  when  we  sleep 
off  our  drunkenness,  then,  if  good,  we  have 
the  sincere  love  of  marriage,  but  if  evil,  we 
rue  it." 

With  a  sigh  Dr.  Martin  said:  "  Dear  God! 

What  a  bother  all  these  matrimonial  cases 

are    to    us!     Great    as    is    the    trouble    and 

labor  of  getting  people   together,   it   is   far 

harder    to    keep    them    together.     Adam's 

fall  has  vitiated  our  nature  and  made  it  most 

fickle.     It  runs  hither  and  thither  like  quick- 

*  1  Tim.,  ii,  15. 

'"Hinan,"  the  same  word   and    thought   used  by  Goethe 
in  his  famous:    "Das  Ewig-weibliche  zieht  uns  hinan." 

[611 


k 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

silver.  How  fine  it  is  when  married  people 
only  keep  together  at  bed  and  board!  If 
they  do  murmur  at  each  other  now  and  then, 
that  is  the  accompaniment  of  matrimony. 
Adam  and  Eve  must  have  scolded  each  other 
roundly  during  their  nine  hundred  years, 
as,  '  You  ate  the  apple,'  and,  '  But  you  gave 
it  to  me! '  I  doubt  not  that  during  so  long  a 
life  infinite  evils  happened  to  them  as  they 
sighed  over  their  fall.  It  must  have  been 
an  extraordinary  regime!  In  fact  Genesis  is 
a  wonderful  book  of  wisdom  and  reason." 

"  After  Lucas  the  artist^  had  taken  his 
wife  and  the  wedding  had  been  held,  he  was 
always  desirous  of  being  next  the  bride. 
Now  he  had  a  good  friend,  who  said  to  him: 
*  Friend,  do  not  do  that!  Before  six  months 
are  gone,  you  will  have  enough  of  that! 
There  will  not  be  a  maid  in  the  house,  that 
you  will  not  prefer  to  your  wife.'  And  so  it 
is.  We  hate  those  things  that  are  present 
and  love  those  that  are  absent.  As  Ovid 
says:  *  What  we  may  have,  we  do  not  care 
for;  'tis  what  we  may  not  have  that  rouses 
keen  desire.'^  That  is  the  weakness  of  our 
nature.     For  the  devil  then  comes  and  throws 

*The  reference  is  to  Lucas  Cranach  the  Younger  (1515- 
1586),  who  married  the  daughter  of  Chancellor  Briick  in  1541. 

2  Amores,  2, 19,  3. 

[62] 


MARRIAGE  AND  FAMILY  LIFE 

in  the  way  hatreds,  suspicions,  concupiscence 

on  both  sides,   and  then  desertion  follows. 

/y  To  get  a  wife  is  easy  enough,  but  to  love  her 

with  contsancy  is  difficult,  and  he  who  can  V  ^ 
do  that  may  well  be  grateful  to  our  Lord 
God.  Therefore  if  any  one  wants  to  marry 
a  wife,  let  him  take  the  matter  seriously  and 
pray  to  our  Lord  God:  *  O  Lord,  if  it  is  thy 
divine  will  that  I  should  live  without  a  wife, 
then  help  me  to  do  so!  If  not,  bestow  upon 
me  a  good,  pious  maid,  with  whom  I  can  live 
my  whole  life  long,  one  whom  I  love  and 
who  loves  me.'  For  the  mere  union  of  the 
flesh  is  not  sufficient.  There  must  be  con- 
geniality of  tastes  and  character." 

The  doctor  said:  "Our  Lord  God  gives 
every  time  more  than  we  ask.  When  we 
ask  only  for  a  piece  of  bread,  he  gives  us  a 
whole  acre.^  I  asked  God  to  permit  my 
Katie  to  live,^  and  he  gives  her  a  good  year 
in  addition.  But  I  think  another  visitation 
of  the  plague  will  follow,  for  we  are  too 
wicked,  and  heresy  has  broken  out  among 
us.'' 

"  I  have  privately  permitted  some  married 
people  who  have  as  wife  or  husband  a  leprous 

^  Luther  had  just  purchased  from  his  brother-in-law  the 
farm  of  Zulsdorf,  near  Leipzig. 

*  Katie  had  recently  suffered  a  severe  illness  due  to  a  mis- 
carriage. 

163] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

person  to  marry  in  addition  some  one  else, 
but  only  on  this  condition,  that  the  leprous 
spouse  be  supported.  For  some  medicine 
must  be  found  for  consciences.  The  pope 
provides  for  separation,  lest  the  poison 
spread,  but  does  not  allow  another  mar- 
riage."^ 

He  spoke  much  of  the  arrogance  and  negli- 
gence of  artisans,  who  had  little  diligence 
and  high  wages.  "  I  have  cloth  enough,  but 
cannot  get  any  trousers  made.  I  have 
myself  patched  this  pair  four  times,  and  will 
patch  them  again  before  I  have  a  new  pair 
made.  For  the  tailors  have  no  care;  they 
take  much  material  but  give  it  no  shape. 
Thus  in  Italy  they  have  done  well,  where 
the  tailors  have  a  special  guild  of  trouser 
makers.  But  here  they  pattern  hose,  breeches 
and  coat  all  on  the  same  form." 

Speaking  of  the  ingratitude  of  his  brothers 
and  kinsmen  who  dealt  unjustly  with  him  in 
dividing  his  inheritance,^  he  said:    "  If  they 

*  This  shows  that  Luther  countenanced  bigamy  under 
certain  circumstances,  though  he  refused  to  allow  complete 
divorce. 

'^Hans  Luther,  the  Reformer's  father,  dying  May  29,  1530, 
left  about  1500  gulden,  or  3750,  worth  in  purchasing  power 
twenty  times  as  much.  After  the  death  of  Luther's  mother, 
June  30,  1531,  there  was  an  unfortunate  quarrel  about  the 
division  of  the  estate,  which  was  finally  settled  amicably  on 
July  10,  1534,  by  assigning  to  each  of  the  five  children,  or 
their  heirs,  an  equal  part  in  the  property. 

[641 


MARRIAGE  AND   FAMILY   LIFE 

do  this  while  I  am  alive,  what  will  they  do 
to  my  children  after  my  death?  I  wish  that 
they  had  kept  the  three  hundred  florins,  my 
inheritance,  in  the  name  of  all  the  devils. 
God  gives  me  more  than  this.  I  spend  more 
in  a  year  than  my  heritage.  God,  who  con- 
siders me  his  servant,  supports  me  well, 
as  he  has  proved  up  till  now.  To  him,  as  to  a 
Father,  I  commend  my  children.  That 
shall  be  their  great  treasure.  And  my  son 
will  be  rich  when  my  kinsmen  are  begging." 


(65 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


12.  HOW  THE  TABLE  TALK  WAS 
COLLECTED. 

P  wrote  in  my  note-book:  "  Luther  to 
Melanchthon:  *  You  are  an  orator  In  writing 
but  not  in  speaking,'  "  for  the  candor  of 
both  speaker  and  listener  pleased  me.  Me- 
lanchthon wanted  to  persuade  Luther  not  to 
answer  a  pamphlet  published  by  the  parson 
at  Colin, ^  who,  Luther  said,  was  '*  the  assas- 
sin of  Dresden."  But  what  I  wrote  did  not 
please  Melanchthon,  and  after  he  had  asked 
me  again  and  again  for  the  note-book  in 
which  I  was  accustomed  to  write  what  I 
heard,  at  length  I  gave  it  to  him,  and  when 
he  had  read  a  little  he  wrote  this  couplet: 

"All  things,  Cordatus,  do  not  try  to  tell, 
A  decent  silence  upon  some  were  well." 

Indeed  I  always  knew  that  it  was  an 
audacious  offence  to  write  down  all  that  I 
heard  when  I  stood  before  the  table  or  sat 
at  it  as  guest,  but  the  utility  of  the  practice 
conquered    my    shame,    and    moreover    the 

^  Conrad  Cordatus.     Cf.  supra,  introduction.     P.  xf. 

^  Arnoldi,  pastor  of  a  little  town  (not  Cologne)  in  Duke 
George's  dominions.  Luther  was  inclined  to  attribute  his 
work  to  Duke  George,  "the  assassin  of  Dresden."  Cordatus 
did  not  perfectly  understand  the  situation  of  which  he  wrote. 

166] 


TABLE  TALK  COLLECTED 

doctor  never  showed  even  by  a  word  that 
what  I  did  displeased  him.  Nay  more,  I 
made  way  for  others,  especially  Veit  Dietrich 
and  John  Schlaginhaufen;  I  hope  to  incor- 
porate their  notes  with  mine,  which  would 
make  many  pious  men  my  debtors.  I  wish 
to  add  this  explanation,  because  I  was  con- 
founded by  Philip's  poetry,  and  no  one 
imitates  us  now.^  Let  whoever  copies  these 
notes  even  if  he  does  it  against  my  will,  at 
least  do  it  with  the  same  simple,  candid  spirit 
in  which  I  have  written  them,  and  let  him 
prize  Luther's  words,  as  I  do,  more  than  the 
oracles  of  Apollo.  I  report  not  only  his  dicta 
on  theology  and  other  serious  matters,  but 
also,  as  an  ornament  for  the  rest,  his  jocose 
and  casual  remarks. 

Our  God  sent  me^  this  year  to  Luther's 
table,  through  the  request  of  Jonas  and 
Rorer,  for  which  I  thank  my  God  and  these 
friends  my  whole  life  long.  What  I  saw 
and  heard  there  I  diligently  remarked,  and 
God  gave  me  many  good  sayings  reported  by 

*  Cordatus  evidently  added  this  later,  perhaps  in  1537  when 
he  copied  his  notes. 

^Mathesius  speaks  in  1540.  On  him  and  his  companions 
whom  he  mentions  just  below,  cf.  supra,  introduction. 
P.  xiiif.  This  passage  is  from  his  Historien  von  D.  M. 
Luther s  Anjang^  Lehr,  Leben  und  Surben,  cap.  xii. 

[671 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

Dietrich,  Weller,  Lauterbach,  Heydenreich, 
Besold,  Plato  and  other  boarders  of  the 
doctor.  Ferdinand  a  Maugis,  an  Austrian, 
noted  much  in  his  Bible  and  Rorer  took 
much  precious  material  on  the  interpreta- 
tion of  Scripture.  As  our  doctor  often  took 
weighty  and  deep  thoughts  with  him  to  table, 
sometimes  during  the  whole  meal  he  would 
maintain  the  silence  of  the  cloister,  so  that 
no  word  would  be  spoken;  nevertheless  at 
suitable  times  he  let  himself  be  very  merry, 
so  that  we  were  accustomed  to  call  his  sayings 
the  condiments  of  the  meal,  which  were  pleas- 
anter  to  us  than  all  spices  and  delicate  food. 
If  he  wished  to  get  us  to  speak  he  would 
make  a  beginning:  "What's  the  news?" 
The  first  time  we  let  the  remark  pass,  but 
if  he  said  again:  "  Ye  prelates,  what's  the 
news  in  the  land?  "  then  the  older  men  would 
begin  to  talk.  Doctor  Wolfgang  Schiefer, 
a  travelled  man  of  the  world  who  had  been 
preceptor  to  his  Roman  Majesty's^  children, 
was  often  the  first  to  introduce  a  subject, 
unless  there  was  a  stranger  present.  If  the 
conversation  was  animated,  it  was  never- 
theless conducted  with  decent  propriety  and 
courtesy,  and  the  others  would  not  take 
their  turn  at  it  until  the  doctor  spoke.     Often 

*  /.<.  Ferdinand,  King  of  the  Romans,  brother  of  Charles  V, 

168] 


TABLE  TALK  COLLECTED 

good  questions  of  the  Bible  would  be 
propounded,  which  he  solved  finely,  satis- 
factorily and  concisely,  and  if  any  one  took 
exception  to  any  part  he  would  even  suffer 
that  and  refute  him  courteously. 


1691 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


13.  CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS. 

"  The  Diet  of  Augsburg^  did  not  do  what 
our  opponents  wished;  I  hope  and  shall  pray 
God  that  the  present  Diet*  may  do  as  little. 
Duke  George  has  written  a  stout  memorial 
which  he  thinks  he  will  take  with  him  to  the 
Diet.  I  wish  the  emperor  would  make  him 
pope.  I  think  he  would  soon  make  the 
bishops  who  have  many  dioceses  but  who 
agree  with  Luther  in  other  things,  see  that 
they  would  rather  follow  Luther  than  Pope 
George.  He  wishes  to  reform  their  pluralism 
and  they  won't  have  it." 

"  Pope  Clement  is  the  richest  of  all  men 
and  yet  the  most  miserable.  He  is  a  thor- 
ough scoundrel  and  works  much  mischief. 
He  says  that  before  he  is  through  he  will 
have  the  Turk  at  our  throats  and  so  he  will. 
Therefore  pray  diligently  and  think  of  it 
when  I  am  dead,  for  the  pope  has  many 
wicked  plans  as  has  King  Ferdinand,  yet 
neither  of  them  succeeds.  There  is  no 
greater  rascal  than  Clement  except  Satan. 
He  plans  trouble  for  me  but  will  not  get  ahead 
of  me.     His  plots  stop  at  nothing.     He  tried 

» 1530.    C/.  Smith,  Luther,  247ff. 
•January,  1532,  Smith,  p.  275. 

170] 


CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS 

to  ruin  the  Roman  Empire  and  made  a 
treaty  with  the  king  of  France,  but  was 
smitten  at  Pavia.^  And  now  his  plan  of 
setting  the  Turk  on  us  will  fail.  He  is  a 
Florentine  bastard.'' 

"  Duke  George  is  away  at  the  Diet  of 
Ratisbon.'^  He  will  not  rest  until  he  is 
Elector  of  Saxony,  a  title  to  which  he  has  no 
right.  So  he  went  early  to  the  Diet  to  dis- 
turb the  peace.  How  he  will  rage  and  eat  his 
heart  out  when  peace  is  made!  I  am  pleased 
at  his  trouble,  for  he  only  regrets  that  he 
cannot  revenge  himself  and  satisfy  his  lust 
for  doing  harm.  He  has  worked  up  such  a 
hatred  against  us,  that,  if  he  cannot  digest 
it,  he  will  die  of  it.  He  will  die  of  vexation 
at  not  being  able  to  do  harm." 

"  Duke  George  will  never  think  that  God 
remembers  his  own.  He  sins  against  the 
Holy  Ghost  and  belongs  in  the  abyss  of  hell. 
The  good,  pious  emperor  hurt  him  sorely 
by  keeping  the  peace,  so  he  has  begun  to 
persecute  his  own  people. 

"  They  say  a  mad  dog  lives  only  nine  days, 
but  Duke  George  has  been  mad  nine  years. 
He  will  be  a  lunatic  soon.     He  has  just  ex- 

^  King  Francis  I  of  France  was  defeated   by  the  emperor 
at  Pavia,  February  24,  1525. 

*  January,  1532,  Smith,  p.  275. 

[71] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

iled  some  of  his  subjects  on  account  of  the 
sacrament." 

"  Noble  are  the  Elector  John  Frederic 
and  the  Landgrave  Philip,  who  are  burdened 
with  public  not  private  cares.  If  they  live 
ten  years  longer  (though  it  is  hard  to  see  how 
they  can  when  they  are  so  pressed),  it  will  be 
a  good  thing  for  posterity.  Our  elector  is 
watchful;  the  host  is  at  home.  He  works 
from  early  morning  until  noon,  and  writes 
cunningly.  He  is  not  given  to  drink,^ 
women,  avarice  nor  gaming,  but  is  diligent, 
pious  and  liberal.  Our  God  will  maintain 
him.  When  I  was  in  Torgau  with  the 
Archbishop  of  Mainz  and  the  A^argrave 
of  Brandenburg  I  preached  against  the 
shameful  drunkenness  of  the  courtiers  who 
might  take  a  good  example  from  our 
elector." 

Luther  —  Our  Lord  God  must  reckon 
drunkenness  a  daily  sin  of  us  Germans  for 
we  can't  leave  it,  although  it  is  a  shameful 
plague  destructive  to  body,  soul  and  estate. 

Schiefer  —  Doctor,  they  say  that  at  court 
you  never  attacked  this  vice. 

Luther — Indeed  I  often  did,  and  in  the 
presence  of  the  whole  court.     Truly  I  called 

ijohn  Frederic  was  sometimes  accused  of  too  great  fond- 
ness for  the  bottle;  Luther  himself  says  so  occasionally. 

[72] 


CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS 

it  a  filthy,  scurvy  vice  of  the  nobles  by 
which  they  led  the  elector  astray  and  hurt 
him  much.  Such  teaching  pleased  the  late 
elector  well,  for  he  lived  soberly  and  often 
allowed  John  Frederic  to  stay  at  table  until 
seven  o'clock.  But  my  words  did  no  good. 
I  said  to  the  nobles:  **After  dinner  you 
ought  to  have  a  wrestling  bout  or  some  such 
exercise;  then  I  would  allow  you  a  good 
carouse,  for  drunkenness  may  be  borne 
once  in  a  while,  but  not  as  a  steady  habit.'' 
Then  the  wife  of  Dr.  Leonard  Stetner  related 
that  Luther  had  said  in  his  sermon:  "You 
look  in  the  morning  as  if  your  heads  had 
soaked  in  salt  water." 

"  We  certainly  have  a  prince  [John  Fred- 
eric] adorned  with  many  gifts.  He  has  a 
reverent  tongue  and  listens  to  no  base  or 
blasphemous  word.  He  loves  the  Bible, 
schools  and  churches;  he  carries  a  heavy 
burden  and  alone  keeps  the  faith.  .  .  .  He 
would  gladly  attend  to  everything  but  he 
cannot.  His  only  vice  is  that  he  drinks  too 
much  with  his  friends  and  perhaps  builds  too 
much.  But  he  works  like  a  donkey.  If  we 
didn't  pray  earnestly  for  him  we  should  not 
do  right." 

On  February  17  (1538),  the  doctor  dined 
with  Pucher  and   other  notable    strangers. 

[731 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

Terrible  things  were  said  of  the  Arch- 
bishop of  Mainz  who  was  hard  pressed 
for  money  and  infamous  besides.  He  could 
not  borrow  on  his  seal  and  signature.  He 
paid  fifteen  per  cent  yearly  for  loans.  He 
had  hypothecated  and  sold  jewels,  pictures 
and  lands.  Luther  said:  "  Such  a  scoundrel 
deserves  a  great  curse  for  having  had  his 
preacher  George  Winkler  assassinated  and 
for  having  hung  John  Schenitz,  notwith- 
standing the  inhibition  of  the  emperor  and 
the  offer  of  Schenitz's  friends  to  give  80,000 
gulden  not  for  acquittal  but  simply  for  a  just 
trial.  I  hope  the  prelate  will  yet  be  called 
to  account  for  stringing  up  Schenitz.  It 
was  treachery  which  God  the  just  judge  will 
avenge  with  the  brand  of  infamy.  Wherefore 
I  wrote  a  letter  with  my  own  hand  and  sent 
it  to  the  archbishop^  saying:  If  thieves  are 
to  be  hanged  the  Archbishop  of  Mainz 
should  first  of  all  be  hanged  on  a  gallows 
seven  times  as  high  as  the  Giebichenstein.^ 
I  also  spoke  much  of  his  mistress  Elsa  whom 
he  had  despoiled  of  her  jewels  and  had 
bound.     Once  at  Lisk  he  had  her  put  into 

iThe  letter  of  January,  1536  is  meant,  Enders,  x.  296; 
De  Wette,  iv,  676.    On  Schenitz,  Smith,  Lutkrr,  297f. 

'  A  fortress,  now  In  ruins,  on  the  outskirts  of  Halle,  where 
Schenitz  was  hanged  at  the  order  of  Albert,  Archbishop 
Elector  of  Mainz. 

1741 


CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS 

a  casket  and  carried  into  the  cloister  like  a 
holy  relic.  He  has  since  fallen  on  misfortune. 
He  fears  neither  God  nor  men." 

July  1  (1538),  Luther  sighed  and  said: 
"  Dear  Lord  Jesus  Christ,  give  me  life  and 
strength  and  I  will  shave  that  parson's^ 
head,  for  he  is  wicked  and  a  crafty  mocker  of 
all  men.  All  other  princes  are  rustics  com- 
pared to  him.  He  is  bold  indeed  and  dares 
to  boast  that  few  of  his  attempts  have  failed, 
as  though  he  had  dealings  with  Satan.  Dur- 
ing the  trial  of  John  Schenitz  he  retained  all 
the  lawyers  to  prevent  him  having  any. 
They  were  all  timid  and  did  not  dare  to 
live  up  to  their  professions  and  follow  the 
example  of  Papinian.^  One  must  speak 
loud  to  such  a  youth  as  the  cardinal,  or  he 
will  not  hear.  When  I  wrote  him  so  severely 
he  could  pass  over  all  my  charges  except 
this  one  that  he  had  robbed  the  poor  harlot 
Elsa  of  her  money.  He  took  it  ill  that  this 
was  published.  But  that  woman  died  in 
most  pious  wise,  as  Christ  says,.  *  The  publi- 
cans and  harlots  go  into  the  kingdom  of  God 
before  you.'  " 

*  I.e.    Albert  of  Mainz. 

'  A  celebrated  Roman  jurist,  put  to  death  by  Caracalla  for 
refusing  to  write  an  apology  for  this  emperor's  murder  of  h\% 
brother. 

[75] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

(The  following  conversation  took  place  during  the 
negotiations  of  1539.     Cf.  Smith,  Luthery  314f.) 

Melanchthon.  It  is  a  devilish  thing  suita- 
ble to  the  genius  of  the  men  of  Meissen 
(I  beg  Dr.  Cruciger's  pardon)  that  they 
prepared  for  this  war  so  long  ago. 

Luther.  The  victory  does  not  depend  on 
which  side  has  the  largest  population  or  the 
best  arms  but  only  on  who  has  the  best  cause 
when  they  meet. 

Melanchthon,  Our  elector  sees  well  what 
their  purpose  is,  namely  to  suppress  him  and 
destroy  our  country. 

Luther,  The  prayers  of  the  righteous  avail 
much,  as  David  says.  Therefore  I  prayed. 
Only  let  us  pray,  for  the  victory  will  not 
be  won  by  arms  or  counsel,  but  only  by 
prayer. 

Melanchthon,  They  will  have  plenty  to 
do  when  they  meet;  I  hear  that  Carlowitz 
and   Pistorius   love   calumny   and   cavilling. 

Luther,  Let  them  be  as  eloquent  as  they 
please;  as  they  have  begun  the  matter  with- 
out us  they  can  finish  it  without  us.  Chancel- 
lor Briick  has  often  said  that  Maurice  [Duke 
of  Albertine  Saxony]  was  not  favorable  to 
us  and  that  we  should  look  out  for  him. 

Melanchthon,  What  a  scandal  they  have 
raised! 

176] 


CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS 

Luther,  True,  but  what  can  we  do?  We 
can't  prevent  it. 

Melanchthon,  They  know  it  at  Rome; 
the  pope  will  write  to  congratulate  the  em- 
peror on  it.  The  King  of  England  will  know 
it  and  the  court  of  Paris  will  cry  out  that  the 
house  of  Saxony  is  divided  against  itself  and 
therefore  destroying  itself. 

Luther.  True.  The  devil  is  having  a 
celebration.  He  has  brought  the  news  to 
Rome  long  ago  and  the  papists  are  laughing 
in  their  sleeves. 

Melanchthon.  Yes,  indeed.  They  will 
say:  "  See  what  our  Evangelical  friends 
have  come  to;  see  the  good  fruit  of  their 
doctrine!  " 

Luther,  Yes,  they  will  say  at  Rome  that 
we  are  coming  to  blows  and  will  root  out  our 
own  doctrine.  We  must  listen  to  such 
words  but  God  will  do  what  is  right.  Only 
pray  diligently  without  doubting  and  God  will 
bring  it  to  pass.  I  prayed  Duke  George  to 
death;  we  shall  laugh  Carlowitz  and  Pistorius 
to  death;  God  grant  that  the  authors  of 
this  treachery  end  as  Judas  and  Ahitophel 
did.  .  .  .  Duke  Maurice  is  a  young  man  who 
has  little  intelligence;  he  trusts  his  council- 
lors, but  will  learn  by  experience,  for  no  one 
will  trust  him  in  future. 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

"  Melanchthon  is  a  man  of  authority  and 
weight.  He  expresses  much  in  few  words. 
We  can  understand  from  his  letter  that  there 
will  be  war  because  the  papists  will  not  and 
we  cannot  yield  any  thing.  I  hope  it  may 
turn  out  well,  and  so  commit  the  cause  to 
God.  I  shall  let  him  rule  while  I  play 
the  part  of  Crito  in  the  comedy.  We  shall 
pray  God  to  change  our  adversaries,  for  we 
have  a  good,  just  cause.  Who  would  not 
fight  for  holy  things.'*  Even  from  a  political 
standpoint  we  are  right,  for  we  seek  peace 
which  they  refuse.  That  poltroon  of 
Mainz  brings  misfortune,  and  the  Duke  of 
Brunswick  tries  to  do  evil,  wherefore  our 
friends  must  be  careful  what  they  say. 
Delay  is  unnecessary,  for  we  should  antici- 
pate the  duke  rather  than  be  anticipated  by 
him.  If  I  were  in  the  place  of  the  Landgrave 
of  Hesse  I  should  either  punish  or  destroy 
those  who  would  not  have  peace  in  a  just 
cause.  If  they  really  want  peace  why  don't 
they  grant  it  at  once  instead  of  waiting  so 
many  days.  This  letter^  was  written  ten 
days  ago,  it  is  now  decided.  May  God  the 
eternal  give  us  his  grace.  Let  us  watch  and 
pray,  for  Satan  does  not  sleep." 

*  I.e.  from  Melanchthon;  perhaps  the  letter  of  March  3, 
1539  (Enders,  xii,  106)  is  meant.  On  the  Peace  of  Frankfort 
cj.  Smith,  Luther,  pp.  314f. 

(78] 


CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS 

"  I  do  not  believe  that  Henry  VIII  is 
human,  but  the  devil  incarnate,  for  besides 
his  other  crimes  he  has  now  by  a  fourth^ 
murder  executed  Chancellor  Cromwell,  his 
Dr.  Bruck,^  whom  a  few  days  before  he 
had  made  judge  of  his  kingdom.  Let  the 
devil  serve  great  lords!  And  this  scoundrel 
asked  of  us  that  we  should  make  him  the 
head  of  our  religion,  but  the  elector  was  un- 
willing; for  we  have  not  yet  learned  what 
faith  he  holds." 

"  The  Elector  Frederic  was  timid  about 
punishing,  saying:  *  Yes,  it  is  easy  to  take 
life,  but  we  cannot  restore  it.'  And  Elector 
John  always  connived  at  the  deeds  of  crimi- 
nals, saying,  *  Perhaps  they  will  yet  become 
good.'  And  so  by  this  leniency  they  filled 
the  land  with  rascals.  But  the  prince  and 
magistrate  must  not  be  merciful,  for  consider 
how  harsh  is  the  law  of  God  the  all-merciful, 
when  he  said:  *  He  that  curseth  his  father  or 
his  mother  shall  be  put  to  death  before  the 
altar.'3  Off  with  his  head!  lest  the  land 
be  filled  with  the  wicked.'' 

*  The  news  of  Cromwell's  execution,  which  took  place  in 
July,  1540,  had  apparently  just  reached  Wittenberg.  More, 
Fisher  and  Anne  Boleyn  had  already  been  put  to  death. 

*  Luther  means  that  Cromwell  occupied  a  position  in 
England  similar  to  that  of  Chancellor  Briick  in  the  Electorate 
of  Saxony. 

*  Exodus  xxl,  17,  quoted  from  memory. 

[79] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

"  We  have  a  pious  emperor.  He  has  a 
bolt  on  his  heart,  to  close  up  what  he  wants. 
He  is  silent  and  pious.  I  fancy  he  does  not 
speak  as  much  in  a  year  as  I  do  in  one  day.'' 

They  spoke  of  the  wiles  of  the  Arch- 
bishop of  Mainz,  who  was  so  desperate  that 
he  could  not  live  in  peace  and  justice,  but  re- 
joiced in  civil  war  to  make  others  perish 
with  him.  "  He  is  under  the  same  curse  as 
the  atheist,  who,  unable  to  repent,  said: 
*  It  is  better  to  gallop  to  hell  than  to  jog- 
trot to  heaven.'  Thus  Albert  of  Mainz 
daily  provokes  God  and  men." 

Then  he  spoke  of  a  certain  noble  at  Bitter- 
feld,  in  whose  pond  a  peasant  was  drowned. 
"  That  noble  wished  to  claim  all  the  goods 
of  the  said  peasant  because  he  had  been 
drowned  in  his  waters.  This  claim  was 
strange,  unusual  and  tyrannical,  by  which 
the  noble  wished  to  add  to  the  affliction  of  the 
widow  by  seizing  her  goods!  This  and 
similar  things  are  the  preparation  for  some 
future  slaughter  by  the  Turk  or  the  emperor, 
for  we  can  expect  as  little  good  from  the 
emperor  as  from  the  Turk." 

Then  he  told  of  the  treachery  of  a  certain 
courtier  of  the  Archbishop  of  Mainz,  who 
excused  his  apostacy  from  the  evangelical 
to  the  papal  church  by  saying,  *  I  will  put 

[801 


CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS 

Christ  behind  the  door  for  a  while  until  I 
become  rich,  and  then  I  will  bring  him  out 
again.'  Thus  another  atheist  said:  *  If 
you  are  afraid  of  death  you  will  never  become 
rich.'  Such  sayings  are  most  impious  and 
deserve  the  greatest  punishment." 

Luther  and  Schneidewein^  spoke  of  the 
alliance^  of  the  emperor,  the  King  of  France 
and  the  pope,  and  how,  as  the  dauphin, 
the  eldest  son  of  the  French  King,  had  died, 
his  second  son  was  now  to  marry  the  daughter^ 
of  Pope  Clement.  Luther  said:  "  I  wonder 
at  the  madness  of  so  great  a  king,  who  would 
incestuously^  marry  a  bastard's  bastard  to  his 
son.  It  goes  with  his  treachery.  It  will  not  be 
unpunished  by  God,  for  he  who  chastized 
David's  adultery  must  also  repay  this  sin.  He 
will  certainly  turn  their  fair  show  to  shame." 

In  those  days  (sciL  May  12ff,  1538)  there 
came  from  England  Remige,  a  servant  of 
Dr.  John  Thixtoll,^  who  related  many  splendid 

*  Thomas  Schneidewein,  pastor  of  Juterbok,  near  Wittenberg. 
2  Luther  speaks  in  January,  1538,  referring  to  the  Peace  of 

Cambrai  of  1529. 

2  Catharine  de*  Medici,  a  niece  of  Clement  VII,  married 
Francis  I's  second  son,  later  Henry  II,  in  October,  1533. 

*  By  ecclesiastical  law  marriage  with  a  girl  who  had  been 
contracted  to  one's  brother,  is  incestuous. 

'  A  tolerably  prominent  reformer,  whose  name  is  met  with 
in  the  Calendars  of  State  Papers.  On  Luther's  relations  with 
England,  see  English  Historical  Review y  October,  1910,  pp. 
656tf. 

[81] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

and  wonderful  things  about  that  region  and 
kingdom,  how  with  great  desire  it  hoped  for 
the  gospel,  and  that  even  some  of  the  bishops 
preached  frankly  against  the  horrible  abomi- 
nation of  the  pope.  He  said  that  the  names 
of  Wittenberg,  Luther  and  Melanchthon 
were  held  high,  and  that  even  those  who  had 
only  been  at  Wittenberg  and  could  tell  some- 
thing about  it,  were  also  touched  with  honor. 
He  spoke  about  the  most  cultivated  part  of 
that  country,  and  related  the  wiles  of  the 
monks  of  Canterbury,  who  had  made  an 
image  of  the  crucifix,  which  could  move  its 
face  and  lips  and  nod  its  head,  by  means  of 
cords  and  keys  in  the  back.  This  had  per- 
suaded many  men  to  worship  it,  but  during 
the  last  weeks  the  frauds  had  been  revealed 
by  the  visitation^  of  the  king,  and  publicly 
demonstrated  by  a  bishop  in  London,  and 
finally  this  image  was  carried  everywhere 
through  the  streets  and  torn  apart.  Luther 
said:  "We  should  keep  this  image  in  our 
memory,  like  the  one  of  the  Virgin  with  the 
child  Christ  in  her  arms,  which  our  elector 
has.  The  Christ  can  be  moved  by  cords, 
and,  as  though  he  did  not  wish  adorers  to 

*  Many  such  frauds  were  exposed  by  the  visitation  of  the 
monasteries  in  1536.  They  were  brought  up  to  London  and 
their  mechanism  exposed  to  the  crowds.  T.  M.  Lindsay; 
Thf  Reformation,  ii,  343f. 

[82] 


CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS 

look  away  from  him  to  his  mother,  when 
they  seek  her  mediation  he  stretches  out 
his  little  arm  and  moves  himself  towards  the 
worshipper." 

When  Luther  was  asked  whether  Thomas 
More^  had  been  slain  by  his  king  on  account 
of  the  gospel,  he  replied:  "By  no  means! 
For  he  was  a  great  tyrant  against  the  Evan- 
gelical faith,  and  poured  out  much  blood  of 
its  pious  adherents.  After  he  had  first 
examined  them  under  a  green  tree,  he  would 
torture  them  like  a  hangman  with  strange 
instruments  and  with  torments  and  in  dun- 
geons. Finally,  having  attained  the  place 
second  to  the  king,  he  attacked  the  king 
himself,  contrary  to  the  decree  of  the 
whole  kingdom,  and  for  that  he  paid  the 
penalty." 

Hans  von  Bora  had  said:  "  Duke  George, 
God  be  merciful  to  him!"  To  this  the 
doctor  added:  "Unmerciful!  For  if  he  is 
not  in  hell,  then  Caiaphas  is  not  there  either, 
and  there  is  no  hell  at  all.  For  in  him  died 
the  greatest  persecutor  of  the  gospel,  who 
acted  with  the  most  extreme  hatred,  joined 

*  More,  who  was  Lord  Chancellor  after  the  fall  of  Wolsey, 
was  put  to  death  by  Henry  VIII,  July  6,  1535,  for  refusing  to 
take  the  oath  of  supremacy.  He  had  written  a  book  of 
unsurpassed  virulence  against  Luther  in  1523,  and  had  pcr- 
•ccutcd  the  English  Lutherans  cruelly. 

[83  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

with  envy  and  malice  towards  his  brother. 
What  have  his  own  flesh  and  blood  done  to 
him,  that  he  should  wish  to  disinherit  them 
and  give  the  land  to  the  overlord?  When 
counsellors  opposed  his  plan,  he  said  to  them: 

*  You  are  unfaithful  and  betray  me!'  On 
that  day,  when  God  killed  him,  he  made  a 
will,  in  which  he  left  all  his  treasure  to  the 
emperor,  that  the  latter  might  use  it  against 
his  enemies  in  Germany;  but  what  enemies 
has  the  emperor,  except  us?  He  was  a 
wicked,  envious  man.  If  he  should  learn 
that  Duke  Henry's^  children  now  sit  com- 
fortably in  his  place,  it  would  grieve  him  in 
hell.  But  God  is  our  God.  He  has  him  out 
of  the  way  and  three  cardinals,  and  the  one 
at  Mainz  is  very  sick.  Still  when  one  knave 
is  got  rid  of,  there  comes  another  in  his 
place.  The  Brunswicker^  also  will  not  last 
long." 

"  Anthony  of  Schoenberg  once  said  to  his 
brother,  the  Cardinal  Archbishop  of  Capua: 

*  You  certainly  have  a  bad  cause,  and  in 
spite  of  that  do  you  condemn  Luther? ' 
But  the  cardinal,  silent  at  first,  at  length 
broke  forth:  *  Yes,  it  is  too  much!  It  will 
have  to  break! '     And  when  he  heard  that 

*  His  brother  and  successor. 

*  Duke  Henry  the  Younger,  of  Brunswick- Wolfenbuttel. 

[84] 


CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS 

at  Augsburg^  we  had  asked  only  that  we 
might  preach  our  doctrine  without  fear, 
that  we  were  not  bound  thereby  to  attack 
the  pope,  and  that  the  papists  had  refused 
their  consent:  *  These  conditions,'  he  said, 
'ought  to  have  been  accepted!  For  never 
again  will  such  just  terms  be  offered  to  the 
pontiff.  I  know  the  character  of  the  Ger- 
mans/ And,"  continued  Luther,  "  it  will 
never  come  so  far  again,  and  it  ought  not 
to." 

When  someone  said  that  the  King  of  Eng- 
land had  put  Doctor  Robert  Barnes  in 
chains,  because  he  opposed  the  king's  articles, 
Luther  replied :  "  This  king  wishes  to  be  God. 
He  establishes  articles  of  faith  and  prohibits 
the  marriage  of  the  clergy  on  pain  of  death, 
which  not  even  the  pope  has  done.  I 
am  something  of  a  prophet;  what  I  prophesy 
will  come  to  pass;  therefore  I  restrain  myself 
and  talk  little." 

Schiefer  said:  "  If  the  emperor  should 
grant  us  peace  in  our  lands  for  a  time,  then 
the  business  of  the  assembly^  would  be  well 
done.  The  doctor  added:  "Perhaps  he 
will  grant  it,  but  on  this  condition,  that  we 

*  At  the  Diet  of  Augsburg,  1530,  when  the  official  statement 
of  the  Lutheran  faith,  known  as  the  Augsburg  Confession, 
was  presented. 

'  The  Conference  soon  to  be  held  at  Hagenau,  1540. 

[85  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

should  bar  all  others  from  our  religion. 
That  we  could  not  do.  Let  them  do  it 
themselves!  The  Word  of  God  is  free,  and 
will  not  be  confined  by  human  decrees. 

"  Charles  is  a  melancholic  voluptuary, 
with  nothing  heroic  in  him.  He  does  not 
understand  our  cause,  even  though  he  some- 
times hears  our  books  read.  If  he  were 
Scipio  or  Alexander  or  Pyrrhus,  he  would 
break  through  the  nets  of  the  pope  and  bind 
the  Germans  to  himself.  He  begins  many 
things  and  finishes  few.  He  took  Tunis 
and  has  already  lost  it;  he  took  the  French 
king  and  let  him  go;  and  the  same  with 
Rome.  He  lacks  persistence  in  the  conduct 
of  his  afi"airs,  and  easily  gives  up,  a  thing 
which  really  able  and  noble-minded  men  do 
not  do.  What  shall  I  say.^  Germany  is 
without  a  head.  Melanchthon  has  compared 
it  to  Poliphemus  with  his  eye  put  out.  It  is 
a  huge  mass,  but  it  lacks  a  prince!  " 

"  Ferdinand  is  a  monk,  observes  his  seven 
canonical  hours,  and  neglects  the  business  of 
the  state.  Thus  Faber^  will  have  it;  and 
the  emperor  must  listen  to  him.  He  also  is 
ignorant  of  our  doctrine,  neither  reading  it 
nor  hearing  it  read.  This  the  popes  see  to, 
by  means  of  his  confessors.     They  know  that 

*  John  Faber,  Bishop  of  Vienna. 

1861 


CONTEMPORARY  POLITICS 

our  theology  is  grounded  on  certainty,  and 
I  believe  that  if  the  king  understood  it,  he 
would  support  it  faithfully  and  drive  the 
pope  from  Germany.  Error  and  weakness 
are  not  such  evil  diseases  as  open  blasphemy, 
like  that  of  the  Archbishop  of  Mainz  and 
Duke  George.  The  latter  understood  our 
position  and  said:  *  The  cause  is  just,  but  it 
has  not  been  approved  by  the  church.' 
Wherefore  the  wicked  blasphemer  is  dead 
and  in  hell,  where  he  groans  away  his  un- 
worthy existence  among  the  shades." 


87 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


14.  WAR  AND  TURBULENCE. 

"The  Swiss  argue  thus:  *  Whoever  has 
a  just  cause,  may  rightly  make  war;  we  have 
a  just  cause,  therefore  we  will  make  war.' 
Both  premises,  major  and  minor  are  false 
and  dangerous.  For  the  major  premise 
does  not  permit  wars  in  general,  but  only 
defensive  wars;  and  as  to  the  minor  premise, 
it  is  open  to  question  whether  or  not  the 
cause  is  just.  And  so  the  conclusion  also 
is  doubtful.  Therefore  those  who  say:  *  We 
will  have  revenge,'  rely  on  human  strength; 
the  righteous,  however,  trust  in  God:  *  For 
where  two  or  three  are  gathered  together  in 
my  name,  there  am  I  in  the  midst  of  them;'^ 
thus  to  them  all  things  work  together  for 
good,  while  in  the  case  of  the  papists  the 
reverse  is  true,  since  they  do  not  trust  in  the 
true  God,  but  in  the  emperor.  Let  us  stick 
to  prayer,  for  it  is  only  by  praying  that  we 
can  vex  the  devil.  Our  Lord  God  is  a 
righteous  man,  let  us  therefore  not  forget 
him." 

"  If  the  world  were  full  of  concord,  peace 
and  justice:  if  the  peasant  everywhere  were 
obedient  to  the  prince,  the  servant  to  the 

» Mat.  xvlii,  20. 

188] 


WAR  AND  TURBULENCE 


master,  the  wife  to  the  husband,  then  no  one 
would  long  for  the  future  life.  Therefore 
God  fills  this  world  with  turbulence,  in  order 
that  we  may  hope  for  another  life!" 


89 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


15.  THE  PEASANTS. 

As  Luther  was  playing  with  his  Infant 
child  he  said:  "Ah,  what  a  blessing  from 
God  children  are!  Peasants  are  clearly 
unworthy  of  them;  they  should  have  pigs 
only/' 

"  The  peasants  to-day  are  evidently  swine, 
and  the  nobles,  who  were  once  unpolluted, 
are  Imitating  them." 

"  The  disobedience  of  peasants  is  unspeak- 
able. They  ought  therefore  to  be  dealt  with 
most  severely  by  the  authorities  and  the  laws. 
It  would  not  do  to  abolish  serfdom;  if  the 
peasants  didn't  have  to  work  they  would 
go  to  the  devil." 

"  I  am  most  hostile  to  all  peasants,  be- 
cause, although  they  enjoy  blessings  from 
God  and  have  very  few  or  no  temptations  to 
do  wrong,  they  give  themselves  up  to  all 
kinds  of  sin,  even  the  worst.  But  who  does 
not  love  the  magistracy,  even  when  it  sins, 
since  those  in  authority  are  often  forced  to 
sin,  the  more  seriously  and  the  oftener  in 
proportion  to  the  greatness  of  their  office, 
whether  in  the  state  or  In  the  church.  Ty- 
rants, however,  are  the  vicars  of  Satan  on 
earth." 

[90] 


THE   PEASANTS 


Doctor  Briick^  said  concerning  one  of  his 
old  peasants,  the  sliest  one  of  them  all  and 
full  of  deceit,  that  he  had  not  been  able  in 
three  years  to  get  him  to  learn  the  Lord's 
prayer;  that  he  himself  examined  him  each 
year,  but  yet  he  did  not  know  it.  Doctor 
Martin  replied:  "  Peasants  are  beasts!  For 
they  think  that  religion  has  been  invented  by 
us  and  is  not  divine.  Moreover  they  take 
the  sacraments  mechanically  as  they  wear 
their  clothing.  When  they  are  examined, 
they  say:  *  Yes,  yes! '  although  they  believe 
nothing.  Thus  it  happened  under  the  pa- 
pacy, in  Dabrun,^  where  a  peasant  in  the 
agony  of  death  asked  for  the  sacrament,  yet 
was  unwilling  to  believe  in  the  resurrection 
of  the  dead;  therefore  the  pastor  denied  him 
the  sacrament.  Then  the  village  magistrate, 
his  godfather,  went  to  him,  and  tried  to 
persuade  him,  as  follows:  *  Dear  godson, 
do  believe  it,  to  please  me!  It  won't  kill 
you!  I  will  guarantee  that  nothing  will 
result  from  it! '  Thus  it  is  evident  that 
neither  of  them  had  any  faith  in  this  article 
of  the  creed." 

"  A  peasant,  who  is  a  Christian,  is  a 
wooden  fire-poker.'' 

^Gregory  Briick,  often  called  Pontanus   (1483   or   1486- 
1557),  at  this  time  chancellor  of  Electoral  Saxony. 
'  Southeast  of  \\' ittenberg. 

[911 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

"  The  princes  of  the  world  are  gods,  the 
common  people  are  Satan.  Through  them 
[the  common  people]  God  sometimes  brings 
to  pass  what  otherwise  he  would  accomplish 
through  Satan,  namely,  seditions,  for  the 
punishment  of  the  evil." 

"  If  riches  do  come  to  the  peasant,  he  is 
rather  burdened  by  them  than  benefited." 

"  The  peasants  are  not  worthy  of  so  many 
benefits  and  fruits  as  they  obtain  from  the 
earth.  I  am  more  grateful  to  the  Lord  God 
for  a  tree  than  all  the  peasants  are  for  all 
their  acres."  When  Doctor  Martin  Luther 
said  this,  Philip  Melanchthon  replied;  "  Doc- 
tor, please  except  some  farmers,  Adam, 
Noah,  Abraham,  Isaac,  etc."  Luther  re- 
plied: "They  were  not  only  farmers,  but 
also  theologians.  For  the  text  says  of  Isaac, 
in  Genesis  xxiv,  63 :  '  And  he  went  out  to 
meditate  in  the  field,'  namely,  on  God's 
gifts  in  his  creatures." 

When  Luther's  wife  brought  him  some 
recently  hatched  chickens,  he  said:  "If 
farmers  appreciated  their  blessings  they  would 
be  in  paradise.  To  be  in  paradise  is  to 
know  God  and  to  be  free  from  sin,  and 
farmers  live  in  the  midst  of  God's  creatures, 
in  which  they  may  see  God  himself." 

"  The  princes  have  difficult  and  extremely 

[92J 


THE  PEASANTS 


important  matters  to  determine,  while  the 
peasants  snore  in  security.  If  a  peasant 
knew  the  danger  and  toil  which  a  prince 
has  to  undergo,  he  would  thank  God  that  he 
is  a  peasant  and  in  the  happiest  station  in 
life.  But  farmers  are  blind  to  their  own  good 
fortune;  they  observe  only  the  outward 
pomp  of  princes,  their  clothes,  palaces  and 
power,  and  fail  to  see  that  their  life  is  beset, 
as  it  were,  by  fire  and  flood,  while  the  peasant 
slumbers  peacefully  behind  the  stove.  There- 
fore Elector  Frederic,  addressing  the  school- 
master^ at  Lichtenberg,  held  that  of  the 
various  classes  in  the  community  the  peas- 
ants enjoyed  the  happiest  life,  for  he  weighed 
one  after  the  other  the  fortunes  of  all  the 
ranks  thus:  the  emperor  was  exposed  to  the 
greatest  perils,  calamities  and  cares;  the 
princes  were  subject  to  various  hardships; 
the  nobles  also  had  their  worries;  the  burgh- 
ers, although  they  had  some  advantages, 
had  to  work  for  their  living.  They  buy 
goods  with  care,  expend  labor  on  them,  and 
then  sell  at  a  loss;  they  have  to  undergo 
many  dangers  in  winning  their  daily  bread. 
It  is  only  for  the  peasants  that  all  things 
grow  of  their  own  accord.  To  be  sure,  they 
pay  taxes  and  tithes,  for  the  land  belongs  to 

*  Wolfgang  Reissenbusch. 

193] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

the  princes;  but  their  labors  are  most  joyful 
and  encouraged  by  pleasant  anticipations. 
In  plowing,  planting,  sowing,  reaping,  thresh- 
ing, wood-cutting  —  in  all  this  work  they 
look  forward  to  the  results  with  the  keenest 
expectation.  It  is  thus  true,  as  Vergil  says: 
*  Farmers  would  be  extremely  happy  if  they 
recognized  their  blessings.'^  But  they  are 
unable  to  appreciate  their  good  fortune. 
Men-servants  and  maid-servants  are  always 
better  off  than  their  masters  and  mistresses, 
because  they  have  no  such  domestic  cares  as 
does  the  head  of  the  household.  My  Wolff,^ 
my  Gretchen,^  Lena,*  the  servants  and  at- 
tendants are  much  better  off  than  I  and  my 
Katie,  for  marriage  brings  with  it  troubles." 
Then  turning  to  Veit  Dietrich,  he  said: 
"  If  you  remain  as  you  are,^  you  will  be 
happy.'*  The  latter  replied:  "  I  don't  wish 
to  remain  thus  but  I  shall  cast  the  die, 
whether  I  fare  better  or  worse."  Luther 
concluded:  "The  higher  the  station,  the 
greater  the  danger.     No  one  is  content  with 

^  Vergil,  Georgics,  ii,  485. 
'  Wolfgang  Sieberger,  Luther's  servant. 
'Perhaps    Katie's    cook.    Aurifaber    gives    the    name    as 
Dorothy. 

*  Probably  Magdalene  Kaufmann,  Luther's  niece. 

•  I.e.,  unmarried.     Dietrich  at  this  time  was  wooing  Mag- 
dalene Kaufmann.    See  Introduction,  p.  xi. 

[941 


THE  PEASANTS 


his  lot.  *  The  ox  envies  the  horse,  the  horse 
the  ox.'  "1 

P  said:  "  Doctor,  the  common  people  are 
offended  by  the  bad  morals  of  the  clergy." 
"  What/'  said  he,  "  do  the  common  people 
know?  They  simply  want  an  excuse.  We 
have  here  upright  and  honorable  men,  but 
what  good  does  it  do.'*  If  the  life  of  the  pas- 
tor is  bad,  then  the  peasants  complain; 
if  good,  they  say:  '  Who  can  be  so  good  as 
our  pastor?     I  must  look  out  for  myself.'  " 

"  I,  Martin  Luther,  smote  all  the  peasants 
in  their  rebellion.  For  I  commanded  them 
to  be  slain;  all  their  blood  is  on  my  head. 
But  I  put  the  responsibility  upon  our  Lord 
God,  who  ordered  me  to  say  what  I  did."^ 

^  Horace,  EpistUs,  i,  14,  43.  Luther's  conversations  are 
remarkable  for  their  wealth  of  classical  allusion.  Cf.  Smith, 
Luthefy  p.  341. 

^Mathesius  reports  this  in  1540. 

'During  the  peasants*  rebellion  in  1525  Luther  urged  the 
princes  to  suppress  the  revolt  with  ruthless  slaughter. 


95 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


16.  SCHOOLS. 

"  When  schools  flourish,  then  things  go 
well  and  the  church  is  secure.  Let  us  have 
more  learned  men  and  teachers!  The  youth 
furnish  recruits  for  the  church,  they  are  the 
source  of  its  well-being.  If  there  were  no 
schools,  who  would  there  be  to  take  our 
places  when  we  die?  In  the  church  we  are 
forced  to  have  schools.  God  has  preserved 
the  church  through  schools,  they  are  its 
conservatories.  They  have  no  fine  exterior, 
but  within  they  are  most  useful.  In  schools 
the  children  have  learned  the  Lord's  prayer 
and  the  creed;  in  the  little  schools  the  church 
has  been  wonderfully  preserved." 

"  Schoolmasters  become  bold  and  learn 
how  to  expound  the  Bible  by  teaching  school. 
Nowadays  young  men  want  to  be  ordained 
at  once  and  avoid  school  work.  If  one  taught 
school  ten  years  he  might  retire  with  a  good 
conscience,  for  the  work  is  heavy  and  little 
honored.  In  a  city  a  schoolmaster  has  as 
much  responsibility  as  a  minister.  We  can 
take  magistrates,  princes  and  nobles  as  we 
find  them  but  not  schools,  for  schools  rule 
the  world.  We  see  that  there  is  no  ruler 
today   who  is  not  of  necessity  governed  by 

1961 


SCHOOLS 

a  lawyer  or  a  minister.  The  princes  know 
nothing  of  themselves  and  are  ashamed  to 
learn,  so  they  have  to  apply  to  the  schools. 
Were  I  not  a  preacher  there  is  no  profession 
on  earth  I  would  sooner  follow.  One  must 
not  regard  how  the  world  esteems  and  pays 
it  but  how  God  glorifies  it  every  day." 

"  It  is  my  opinion  that  on  the  last  day  an 
honest  schoolmaster  will  be  more  honored 
than  all  the  popes.'* 


[97, 


CONVERSATIONS   WITH  LUTHER 


17.  MUSIC. 

"  Music  is  the  greatest  gift,  indeed  it  is 
divine;  and  therefore  Satan  is  extremely 
hostile  to  it,  because  by  its  influence  many 
great  temptations  are  overcome.  The  devil 
doesn't  stay  where  there  is  music." 

"  Music  is  the  highest  art,  the  notes  of 
which  cause  the  words  of  the  text  to  live. 
It  puts  to  flight  all  sad  thoughts,  as  we  see  in 
the  case  of  Saul.^  The  nobles  think  that 
they  have  saved  our  gracious  Lord  three 
thousand  florins  in  the  matter  of  music, 
while  they  squander  in  other  ways  three 
times  as  much.  Music  must  be  supported 
by  the  king  and  princes,  for  the  preserva- 
tion of  the  arts  as  well  as  of  the  laws  is 
the  work  of  monarchs.  Private  citizens, 
however  much  they  may  love  them,  are 
not  able  to  maintain  them.  Duke  George, 
the  Landgrave  of  Hesse  and  our  Elector 
Frederic  have  maintained  musicians,  and 
now  the  emperor,  King  Ferdinand  and  the 
Duke  of  Bavaria  are  doing  so.  Therefore  it 
is  written  of  David  that  he  maintained 
both  male  and  female  singers.^ 

*  1  Sam.  xvi,  23. 

*  Ecclesiastes  ii,  8. 

[98] 


MUSIC 

"  Singing  is  a  fine,  noble  art  and  exercise. 
It  has  nothing  to  do  with  the  world;  it  is 
removed  from  the  contentions  of  the  market 
and  the  court.  The  singer  fears  no  evil; 
he  shuts  out  all  cares  and  is  happy." 

At  the  house  of  Wolfgang  Reissenbusch 
they  sang  at  table.  Luther  said:  "  Music  is 
a   noble  gift  of  God,   next  to  theology.     I  /'> 

would  not  change  my  little  knowledge  of 
music  for  a  great  deal.  Youths  should  be 
trained  in  this  art,  for  it  makes  fine,  clever 
people." 

"  That  was  a  very  wise  regulation  of  the 
ancients  that  required  men  to  exercise  them- 
selves, lest  they  fall  into  debauchery,  exces- 
sive drinking  and  gambling.  Therefore,  I 
heartily  admire  those  noble  exercises,  espe- 
cially two,  music  and  gymnastic  games; 
of  which  the  former  serves  to  drive  away  care, 
the  latter  to  practise  the  limbs  by  jumping 
and  wrestling;  but  the  most  important 
reason  is  that  we  may  not  fall  into  other 
habits  of  drink,  lust  and  gaming,  as,  alas,  we 
see  at  the  courts  and  in  the  cities.  Then 
it  is  only:  *  Here's  to  you!  Swill  it 
down! '  After  that  one  plays  for  a  hun- 
dred florins.  So  it  goes  when  manly  ex- 
ercises are  despised." 

"  Dear  friend,  play  for  me  as  David  played. 

199] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

I  believe  that  if  David  were  now  arisen  from 
the  dead,  he  would  wonder  at  the  progress 
that  has  been  made  in  music.  When  he 
played,  it  must  have  been  like  this:  *  My 
soul  doth  magnify  the  Lord,  etc'  " — he 
sang  at  the  octave  —  "  for  the  lute  was  simply 
an  instrument  of  ten  strings.^  How  does  it 
happen  that  with  reference  to  secular  things 
we  have  so  many  a  fine  poem  and  so  many 
a  beautiful  song,  while  for  spiritual  edifica- 
tion we  have  such  wretched,  cold  things." 

^  Psalm  xcii,  3. 


100 


ASTRONOiMY  AND  ASTROLOGY 


18.  ASTRONOMY  AND  ASTROLOGY. 

"  Astronomy  is  the  oldest  of  all  the  sciences 
and  has  contributed  to  the  progress  of  many 
arts;  it  was  well  known  to  the  ancients, 
and  especially  to  the  Hebrews,  who  observed 
most  diligently  the  course  of  the  heavenly 
bodies,  in  accordance  with  God's  command  to 
Abraham:  *  Look  now  toward  heaven  and 
number  the  stars.'  "^ 

Then  Luther  spoke  concerning  the  three- 
fold movement  of  the  heavens :  "  The  first 
is  the  primary  motion,  of  great  swiftness, 
which  is  perhaps  caused  by  an  angel;  in 
twenty-four  hours  the  whole  firmament  is 
revolved  a  thousand  miles  in  a  jiffy.  It  is 
wonderful  how  quickly  the  whole  sky  is  thus 
wheeled  around.  If  the  sun  and  stars  were 
made  of  iron,  silver  or  gold,  they  would  soon 
be  melted  as  a  result  of  their  enormous 
velocity.  For  a  star  is  greater  than  the  earth, 
and  consider  how  innumerable  the  stars 
are.  The  second  movement  of  the  heavens 
is  that  of  the  planets,  which  take  a  course 
peculiar  to  themselves.  The  third  is  a 
tremulous  motion,  according  to  a  theory 
^  Gen.  XV,  5. 

I  1011 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

recently  set  forth,  but  which  is  still  very 
doubtful." 

"  The  comet  is  a  star  which  wanders 
about  like  the  planets;  but  it  is  a  bastard 
among  the  planets,  a  proud  star  which  takes 
possession  of  the  whole  sky,  as  if  it  were  the 
only  one  there.  It  partakes  of  the  character 
of  heretics,  who  think  that  they  alone  are 
wise  and  act  haughtily  toward  others." 

"  I  praise  astronomy  and  mathematics, 
which  have  to  do  with  demonstrations,  and 
I  think  that  any  star  is  greater  than  the 
earth,  and  that  the  sun  is  by  far  the  greatest 
of  the  stars;  for  astrology  I  have  no  respect." 

"  To  believe  in  the  stars  is  idolatry,  which 
is  contrary  to  the  first  commandment." 

"  No  one  will  persuade  me,  neither  Paul 
nor  an  angel  from  heaven,  nor  even  Melanch- 
thon,  to  believe  in  the  predictions  of  astrology, 
which  are  mistaken  so  many  times  that 
nothing  is  more  unreliable.  For  if  they 
prophesy  correctly  even  two  or  three  times, 
they  make  known  their  prophecies;  if  they 
fail,  they  keep  them  secret."  —  Then  some- 
one asked:  **  Doctor,  how  is  this  argument 
to  be  answered,  that  since  physicians  have 
the  power  to  predict,  astrologers  have  it 
also?  "  "  Physicians,"  he  replied,  "  have 
certain  symptoms  and  experience  to  guide 

[1021 


ASTRONOMY  AND  ASTROLOGY 

them,  and  often  hit  the  truth,  although  they 
sometimes  fail,  but  astrologers  very  fre- 
quently fail  and  are  rarely  right." 

Someone  asked:  "  Doctor,  the  Scriptures 
say  that  God  made  two  great  lights  and 
fixed  all  the  stars  in  the  firmament;  the 
astronomers,  on  the  other  hand,  say  that 
the  moon  is  the  least  and  lowest  of  the  stars. 
Which  shall  we  believe,  the  authority  of 
Scripture  or  the  demonstrations  of  astron- 
omy.'* "  The  doctor  answered:  "From 
the  theory  of  eclipses,  which  is  supported 
by  accurate  demonstrations,  we  are  con- 
vinced that  astronomical  theories  ought  not 
to  be  rejected.  I  believe,  therefore,  that 
Moses  spoke  according  to  our  power  of 
comprehension,  describing  the  moon  as  it 
seems  to  us;  as  Vergil  speaks  of  a  blazing 
star,  according  to  the  impression  it  makes 
and  the  capacity  of  the  ordinary  person  to 
understand.  For  the  Scriptures  often  give 
proof  of  our  infirmity." 

"  I  am  unable  to  admire  sufficiently  the 
human  understanding  for  having  observed 
with  sogreat  accuracy  the  orbitsof  the  planets. 
It  is  very  likely  that  this  was  an  achievement 
of  the  patriarchs,  as  a  result  of  divine  sug- 
gestion. Afterwards  came  the  soothsayer 
astrology,  which  spoiled  astronomy." 

[103] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH   LUTHER 

Speaking  of  the  text:  "  Let  them  be  for 
signs,"^  Luther  said:  "God  meant  true 
signs,  as  eclipses  of  the  sun  and  moon,  not 
those  uncertain  ones;^  they  are  a  human 
invention." 

Mention  was  made  of  a  new  astronomer^ 
who  wished  to  prove  that  the  earth  moved 
and  went  around,  not  the  sky  or  the  firma- 
ment or  the  sun  or  the  moon.  It  was  just 
as  when  one  was  sitting  on  a  wagon  or  boat 
which  was  moving,  it  seemed  to  him  that  he 
was  standing  still  and  resting,  and  that  the 
earth  and  trees  moved  by.  "  So  it  goes," 
[said  Luther],  "  whoever  wants  to  be  clever 
must  not  be  content  with  what  any  one  else 
has  done,  but  must  do  something  of  his  own 
and  then  pretend  it  was  the  best  ever  ac- 
complished. The  fool  wants  to  change  the 
whole  science  of  astronomy.  But  the  Holy 
Scripture  clearly  shows  us  that  Joshua 
commanded  the  sun,  not  the  earth,  to  stand 
still.-* 

1  Gen.  i,  14. 

2  Those  of  the  astrologers. 

'  Copernicus,  whose  epoch-making  work  De  orbium  codes- 
tium  revolutionibus  was  printed  as  its  author  was  dying  by 
the  Protestant  Reformer  Osiander  at  Nuremberg  in  1543. 
He  had  arrived  at  his  momentous  conclusions  as  early  as  1507, 
and  Luther,  who  is  speaking  on  June  4,  1539,  had  heard  of 
them  from  one  of  his  numerous  Nuremberg  friends. 

^Joshua,  X,  12,  13, 

[104] 


THE  HUMANISTS 


19.  THE  HUMANISTS. 

"  Lorenzo  Valla  is  the  best  Italian^  whom 
I  have  seen  or  heard  of  in  all  my  life.  His 
treatise  on  free  will  is  good.  He  has  sought 
simplicity  both  in  piety  and  in  style.  Eras- 
mus seeks  it  in  style  only;  piety  he  ridicules." 

"  Lorenzo  Valla  was  a  good  man,  pure, 
simple,  clever,  and  candid.  He  accomplished 
more  than  all  the  other  Italians  have  ever 
done.  He  wished  in  every  way  to  consult 
the  interests  of  Italian  youth  and  planned 
how  literature  might  be  promoted.  He  has 
written  a  good  book  on  free  will.  He  has 
joined  piety  with  letters." 

"  Dr.  Mutian^  believes  there  is  no  God. 
Desperate  with  poverty  he  took  poison  and 
so  committed  suicide.  He  left  after  him  his 
book  on  religion  which  he  dared  not  publish 
while  alive.  Thus  also  Erasmus  wishes  to 
leave  his  faith  behind  him,  which  he  dares 
not  confess  during  life.  Such  men  will  not 
say    what    they    think.     They    are    paltry 

^  The  word  which  Luther  uses  here  for  Italian  is  VValh,  a 
pun  on  Valla.  The  equivalent  for  VValh  in  modern  German 
is  Walsch. 

2  Conrad  Mutianus  Rufus  (1471  —  March  30,  1526),  a 
humanist  whose  system  was  nearly  allied  to  pantheism. 
Luther  knew  him  in  1516.     The  date  of  this  saying  is  1532. 

[105] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

fellows  who  would  measure  everything  by 
their  own  wisdom  and  think  that  if  God 
existed  he  would  make  another  and  a  better 
world.  But  our  God  will  save  that  for  the 
world  to  come.  This  world  is  only  a  prepara- 
tion for  that.  The  scaffold  is  not  taken  down 
until  the  building  is  ready.  The  painter 
needs  brush  and  paint  until  he  has  made  his 
picture.  So  this  world  is  but  a  preparation 
for  the  other." 

"  All  who  pray,  curse.  Thus  when  I  say, 
*  Hallowed  be  thy  name,'  I  curse  Erasmus 
and  all  who  think  contrary  to  the  Word." 

Luther  said  that  the  Elector  Frederic  had 
once  met  Erasmus  at  Cologne^  and  had  given 
him  a  damask  gown,  but  afterwards  had 
said  to  Spalatin:  "  What  sort  of  a  man  is 
he?  One  never  knows  where  he  is."  Duke 
George  said:  "  Plague  take  him,"  (for  Duke 
George  was  a  rustic  in  manners)  "  one  knows 
not  what  he  is  driving  at.  I  prefer  the 
Wittenbergers;  they  say  yes  or  no."  Luther 
added;  "We  say  it  to  cheat  the  pope." 
Then  Severus^  said  of  Erasmus :    "  I  knew 

*  On  November  5, 1520,  for  the  purpose  of  asking  his  opinion 
of  Luther. 

2  Wolfgang  Schiefer,  who  studied  at  Vienna,  1518,  and  at 
Basle,  1521.  At  the  latter  place  he  learned  to  know  Erasmus. 
In  1522  he  went  to  the  Netherlands  and  in  the  following  year 
to  Wittenberg  where  he  studied  two  years.     Later  he  became 

[106] 


THE  HUMANISTS 


him  and  of  all  pestilent  men  none  was  worse 
than  he.  A  certain  priest  told  me  that  he 
believed  neither  in  God  nor  in  immortality/ 
and  that  he  once  burst  forth  into  this  blas- 
phemy: '  that  if  God  did  not  exist,  he  would 
like  to  rule  the  world  with  his  own  wisdom.'  '* 
Then  said  the  doctor:^  "  He  arrogates  to 
himself  the  divinity  he  would  like  to  take 
from  Christ,  whom,  in  his  Colloquies,  he 
compares  with  Priapus^  and  whom  he  mocks 
in  his  Catechism  and  especially  in  his  de- 
testable Miscellany.^  He  despised  all  others 
and  compared  them  with  himself,  and  thought 
us  who  did   not  understand   his   ambiguity 

tutor  to  the  son  of  Ferdinand,  afterwards  Maximilian  11. 
During  the  year  1540  he  was  Luther's  guest.  Kroker, 
Caiherina  von  Bora,  p.  180. 

*  No  such  expression  or  opinions  are  found  in  Erasmus* 
works.  Charges  of  atheism  were  bandied  about  freely  at 
this  time,  for  any  serious  doctrinal  disagreement  was  regarded 
as  tantamount  to  it.  On  Luther's  relations  with  Erasmus, 
which  were  very  much  strained  after  1524,  cj.  Smith,  Luther ^ 
199f.     This  saying  occurs  in  1540. 

2  Luther. 

'  Erasmus  did  not  compare  Christ  and  Priapus,  but  Luther 
considered  the  close  juxtaposition  of  their  names,  in  Erasmus' 
Colloquies,  blasphemous. 

*  The  Farrago  nova  episiolarum,  1519,  to  which  Luther 
refers  in  a  letter  of  March,  1520,  Enders,  ii,  369.  Luther 
probably  means  Erasmi  Epistola  ad  diversos,  1521,  which  he 
refers  to  as  the  Farrago,  in  a  letter  of  May  15,  1522,  Enders, 
iii,  360.  This  reference  shows  that  he  was  angry  at  Erasmus 
at  that  time,  but  no  letter  of  Luther  challenging  him  to  fight 
is  extant.  The  letter  of  April,  1524  (Enders,  iv,  319)  was 
written  with  just  the  opposite  purpose. 

1107] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

silly,  infatuated  little  geese  and  dolls.  In 
my  letter  which  displeased  Philip  I  chal- 
lenged him  but  he  would  not  fight.  For  I 
had  some  things  from  his  Miscellany  with 
which  I  wished  to  charge  him." 

Melanchthon  repeated  a  saying  of  Eras- 
mus as  follows:  "After  the  theologians 
invented  the  Father  and  the  Son,  they  added 
the  Holy  Ghost  also,  that  they  might  have 
a  pretty  number."^ 

"  Erasmus  of  Rotterdam,"  said  Luther, 
"  thinks  that  the  Christian  religion  is  either 
a  comedy  or  a  tragedy,  and  that  the  things 
therein  described  never  actually  happened, 
but  were  invented  for  the  purpose  of  moral 
training." 

As  Luther  examined  a  likeness  of  Erasmus, 
he  said:  "The  expression  of  his  face  indi- 
cates shrewdness,  but  he  only  scoffs  at  God 
and  religion.  He  uses,  to  be  sure,  the  great- 
est words,  *  Holy  Christ,  the  holy  Word,  the 
holy  sacraments,'  but  in  truth  he  is  very 
indifferent  to  these  things.  He  has  a  gift  for 
biting  satire,  and  his  writing  is  very  clever, 
as   in   his   Praise  of  Folly   and   his  Juliusf 

1  Bellum  numerum.  Compare  the  German  proverb:  All 
good  things  are  in  threes. 

2  On  the  authorship  of  this  work  see  Smith's  Luther'' s 
Correspondence,  p.  63.  It  is  there  held  to  be  correctly  ascribed 
to  Erasmus. 

[1081 


THE   HUMANISTS 


but  in  teaching  he  is  very  cold.  He  can  prate 
indeed,  but  his  eloquence  is  made,  not  born. 
When  he  prepares  a  sermon,  it  sounds  like 
an  artificially  constructed  thing,  utterly 
cold.  As  Cicero  says,  '  there  is  no  better 
way  to  convince  others  than  first  to  convince 
oneself.'  " 

"  To  Erasmus  it  seems  ridiculous  that  God 
should  be  born  of  a  poor  maid.  Lucian 
has  laughed  at  all  the  gods,  but  Erasmus  is 
a  greater  knave  than  he.  But  at  the  last 
day  he  will  feel  difi'erently,  and  [seeing  us 
among  the  saved]  will  say:  *  I  thought  the 
life  of  those  people  was  foolish.'  " 

"  Erasmus  is  bad  through  and  through, 
as  is  evident  in  all  his  books,  especially  his 
Colloquies.  He  says:  '  I  do  not  speak; 
the  speaking  is  done  by  the  characters  who 
are  introduced.'  If  I  were  well  I  would 
have  it  out  with  him.  To  him  '  Father,  Son 
and  Holy  Ghost '  is  a  ridiculous  thing.  God 
allows  us  to  play  with  apples,  pears  and  nuts, 
and  to  jest  with  our  wives,  but  to  do  that  with 
God  and  his  majesty  is  not  allowed." 

"  Erasmus  is  worthy  of  great  hatred.  I 
warn  you  all  to  regard  him  as  God's  enemy. 
He  inflames  the  baser  passions  of  young  boys 
and  regards  Christ  as  I  regard  Klaus  Narr.* 

^  The  court  fool  of  the  Ernestine  princes. 

(109] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

He  teaches  adults  nothing.  Our  solace  is 
faith  in  Christ.  We  have  often  died  for  it; 
let  us  hold  fast  to  it  alone.  I  will  remain 
true  to  Christ,  and  am  willing  to  die  for  him. 
I  have  been  baptized  in  him;  I  can  do 
nothing  and  I  know  nothing,  except  what  he 
has  taught  me." 

"  I  wonder  that  a  man  can  fall  so  far  from 
the  knowledge  of  God  as  Erasmus  has  fal- 
len. He  is  as  certain  that  there  is  no  God 
and  no  eternal  life,  as  I  am  certain  that  I  see. 
Lucian  is  not  so  certain  of  it  as  is  Erasmus." 

"  Erasmus  wrote  against  me  [a  book  called] 
Hyperaspistes,  But  as  there  lives  a  God  in 
heaven,  he  will  perceive  sometime  what  he 
has  done." 

"  That  thought  of  Erasmus  is  the  greatest 
and  most  dangerous  of  all  temptations, 
namely,  that  God  is  unjust  when  the  right- 
eous suffer  misfortune  while  the  unrighteous 
prosper;  for  if  God  were  just  and  adminis- 
tered human  affairs  justly,  the  good  would  not 
fare  ill  nor  the  bad  well.  This  opinion  con- 
cerning God  is  plainly  Epicurean  and  im- 
pious, and  arises  from  the  fact  that  they  who 
hold  it  regard  the  nature  of  man  as  unim- 
paired, while  on  the  contrary  our  judgment, 
reason  and  intellect  have  been  corrupted  and 
made  defective  by  original   sin.     Therefore 

1110] 


THE  HUMANISTS 


they  think  God  to  be  such  a  being  as  he 
seems  to  them  and  their  faulty  eyes.  They 
have  blue  spectacles  on  and  through  them 
they  see  God  discolored,  like  everything 
else,  nor  are  they  able  to  see  him  otherwise. 
For  they  do  not  see  how  much  evil  original 
sin  has  brought  us,  nor  how  it  has  corrupted 
our  judgment.  From  reason  they  conclude 
that  original  sin  is  lust,  putting  it  in  the  flesh 
onlv  and  in  a  certain  base  animal  function, 
namely,  the  reproductive.  And  so  all  writers 
speak  of  carnal  concupiscence  as  original  sin, 
ignoring  infidelity  and  pride  of  heart,  and 
esteeming  these  as  nothing." 

"  With  Erasmus  it  is  translation  and 
nothing  else.  He  is  never  in  earnest;  he 
is  ambiguous  and  a  caviller.  In  his  New 
Testament  he  brings  in  all  the  Fathers: 
*  Thus  says  Ambrosius  ';  '  Thus  says  Augus- 
tine.' Why.^  That  he  may  disturb  the 
reader  and  make  him  think  that  the  doctrine 
is  very  uncertain.  He  abuses  all  of  us 
Christians  without  discrimination,  not  ex- 
cepting Paul  nor  any  other  of  the  pious. 
Master  Philip  told  me  that  Erasmus  said  on 
one  occasion  that  he  wished  to  overthrow  the 
foundations  of  our  doctrine;  and  this  he  is 
trying  exceedingly  hard  to  accomplish  in  all 
his  writings.     Philip  has  one  of  his  dialogues 

[111] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

entitled  Liician  Concerning  Christy^  which 
is  said  to  contain  gross  blasphemies." 

Speaking  of  Erasmus'  edition  of  the  New- 
Testament  Luther  said:  "  I  wish  that  it 
might  be  suppressed  because  of  its  Epi- 
cureanism- and  the  many  false  doctrines 
which  have  been  inserted.  He  has  destroyed 
many,  body  and  soul.  He  is  one  cause  of  the 
Sacramentarians.  He  has  injured  the  Gospel 
as  much  as  he  has  advanced  the  science  of 
grammar.  He  has  been  a  shameless  fellow. 
Zwingliwas  led  astray  by  him;  he  won  over 
Egranus^  also,  who  has  about  as  much  faith 
as  he  himself.  He  died  without  the  cross  and 
without  light.  If  I  were  a  young  man,  I 
would  study  the  Greek  tongue  till  I  knew  it 
perfectly,  and  then  bring  out  another  edi- 
tion "  [sc.  of  the  New  Testament]. 

"  It  is  the  opinion  of  the  pope  and  all 
the  cardinals,  and  even  of  Erasmus,  that 
religion  is  all  a  fable,  but  that  it  should  be 
preserved  in  order  that  the  royal  power  and 
the  papal  monarchy   may   be   maintained; 

*  Erasmus  translated  various  dialogues  of  Lucian,  but  none 
is  extant  with  this  title,  nor  is  there  any  dialogue  of  Lucian 
with  this  title,  though  the  Greek  satirist  occasionally  alludes 
to  the  Founder  of  Christianity. 

2  I.e.y  skepticism. 

^  John  Sylvius  Egranus  (John  Wildenauer  of  Eger)  was  a 
preacher  in  Zwickau  and  afterwards  in  Joachimsthal.  He 
died  in  1535. 

1 112  J 


THE   HUMANISTS 


these  institutions,  they  think,  would  col- 
lapse without  the  fear  of  religion,  and  it 
would  also  be  impossible  to  hold  the 
common  people  to  their  tasks.  For  this 
purpose  they  make  use  of  religion,  in  the 
truth  of  which  they  do  not  believe." 

"  Egranus  was  a  proud  ass,  and  what  he 
said  about  not  exalting  Christ  too  high,  he 
had  learned  from  Erasmus.  After  he  had 
visited  him,  nothing  that  he  had  formerly 
praised,  pleased  him  any  more." 


113 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


20.     HUMAN   REASON   AND   THE 
PHILOSOPHY  OF  THE  PAGANS. 

"  Erasmus,  Oecolampadius,  Zwingli  and 
Carlstadt  wish  to  measure  everything  by 
their  own  wisdom,  and  so  are  confounded. 
I,  however,  thank  God  that  I  know  and 
believe  that  God  is  much  wiser  than  I  am. 
He  can  do  things  that  are  quite  beyond  my 
comprehension;  he  is  able  to  make  invisible 
things  visible,  for  all  these  things  which  are 
now  being  accompHshed  by  the  light  of  the 
Gospel  are  invisible  things  made  visible. 
Who  would  have  hoped  ten  years  ago  that 
things  would  ever  be  as  they  are  now.^ 
But  the  flesh  is  most  wicked." 

"  God  promises  us  forgiveness  of  sins 
through  grace  and  also  adds  threats  of 
punishment:  '  Unless  ye  believe,  ye  will 
perish.'^  Before  we  would  believe  that  and 
accept  pardon  freely  offered,  we  would  rather 
torture  ourselves  to  death,  or  walk  in  heavy 
armor  to  the  shrine  of  St.  James. ^  In  short, 
to  the  world  belong  not  truth  and  life,  but 

*  Mark  xvi,  16. 

'At  Santiago  de  Compostella  in  Spain,  a  chief  resort  of 
pilgrims  during  the  Middle  Ages.  The  cathedral  is  said  to 
contain  the  sepulchre  and  relics  of  the  apostle  St.  James. 

[114  J 


REASON  AND  PHILOSOPHY 

falsehood  and  slaughter,  of  which  the  one  is 
the  pope,  the  other  the  Turk.'* 

"  Those  who  made  Fortune  a  goddess  were 
wise  men:  they  saw  that  what  happens  in 
the  world  is  not  governed  by  human  reason, 
nor  sustained  by  human  strength,  but  by 
divine." 

Luther  was  asked  whether  the  light  of 
reason  was  useful  to  the  theologian.  He 
replied:  "  I  make  this  distinction:  Reason 
corrupted  by  the  devil  is  harmful,  and  the 
cleverer  and  more  richly  endowed  it  is, 
the  more  harm  it  does,  as  we  see  in  wise 
men  who  are  led  by  their  reason  to  reject 
the  Word;  but  reason  informed  by  the 
Spirit  is  a  help  in  interpreting  the  Holy 
Scriptures.  'Thus  the  tongue  of  Cochlaeus^ 
speaks  blasphemies,  while  my  tongue  speaks 
the  praise  of  God,  and  nevertheless  it  is  the 
same  instrument  in  each  case;  it  is  a  tongue 
before  faith  and  after  faith,  and  while 
simply  as  a  tongue  it  does  not  help  one's 
faith,  it  does  so  when  the  mind  is  illumined 
by  the  Spirit.  So  reason  also  is  of  service  to 
faith,  when  it  is  enlightened,  since  it  reflects 
upon  things;  but  without  faith  it  is  of  no 
use,   just   as   the   tongue  of  the   unbeliever 

*  John  Dobneck,  commonly  called  Cochlaeus  (1479-1552),  a 
prominent  Catholic  opponent  of  the  Reformer. 

[115] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

speaks  idle  blasphemies,[  as  we  see  in  Duke 
George.j  When,  however,  reason  is  enlight- 
ened by  the  Spirit,  it  takes  all  its  thoughts 
from  the  Word;  then  substance  remains, 
while  vanity  disappears.^^::^ 

"  No  error  is  so  gro'ss,  that  it  may  not 
appear  most  plausible,  if  you  consider  it 
with  the  reason  alone  without  the  aid  of  the 
Word,  as,  for  example,  the  error  of  the 
Manichaeans^  concerning  the  two  principles 
of  good  and  evil;  for,  looking  about  over 
the  world,  they  saw  in  everything  some  good 
and  some  evil.  Now  the  reason  that  they 
fell  into  such  a  stupid  error  was  that  they 
did  not  consider  the  first  article  of  the  creed, 
or  considered  it  only  carelessly,  otherwise 
they  would  not  have  admitted  another  God. 
For  thus  it  stands  in  the  creed:  '  I  believe 
in  one  God.'  Origen  also  discusses  the 
existence  of  evil,  whether  God  is  the  author 
of  it.  We  hold,  however,  that  he  is  not 
really  the  author  of  evil,  but  that  he  permits 
it  to  exist,  according  to  the  text:  *  So  I  gave 
them  up  unto  their  own  hearts'  lust.'  "^ 

"  Philosophy  ought  to  be  content  to 
investigate  matter,  its  primary  and  second- 
ary qualities,   and   to   distinguish   accidents 

*  A  sect  of  heretics,  who  derived  from  Persia  their  doctrine 
of  dualism. 
2Ps.  kixi,  12. 

[1161 


REASON  AND  PHILOSOPHY 

from  the  substance.  Concerning  causes  it 
is  unable  to  reach  any  certainty.  For  a 
chicken  just  hatched  from  the  shell  retains 
its  peculiar  nature,  and  nothing  is  added  by 
a  second  cause.  How  can  the  stars  affect 
a  boy  so  as  to  make  of  him  a  man,  and  how 
can  philosophy  speak  correctly  of  causes, 
since  it  does  not^  presuppose  the  existence  of 
either  God  or  the  devil,  and  yet  one  is  called 
the  creator  and  the  other  the  prince  of  the 
world.  Therefore  its  speculations  are  of 
slight  account." 

Luther  said:  "Alas!  We  are  indeed  poor 
people!  We  should  be  contemptible  pau- 
pers if  things  were  to  remain  as  they  are 
forever."  Someone  then  remarked:  "The 
heathen  argue  that  since  the  good  suffer 
ills  here,  there  must  be  another  life."  "  Yes," 
replied  the  doctor,  "  that  is  the  best  argu- 
ment, and  all  the  heathen  have  it.  Less 
important  is  the  argument  of  Plato^  that  the 
soul  does  not  consist  of  elements,  and  his 
proof:  *  Because  ideas  and  such  swift  move- 
ments are  not  of  the  nature  of  an  element,' 
is  of  no  value,  although  Augustine  discourses 

^  The  negative  is  not  present  in  the  text  as  given  by  Kroker, 
Luthns  Tischreden,  p.  205,  but  it  seems  necessary  to  supply 
it.  The  haste  with  which  the  students  were  obliged  to  write, 
makes  the  text  of  the  table  talk  faulty. 

*  In  his  dialogue,  Phaedo,  and  also  in  the  Phaedrus. 

1117] 


/ 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

about  it  vigorously,  and  has  made  many 
inductions;  for  even  a  sheep  takes  on  swift 
motions  when  it  sees  a  wolf!  Therefore  their 
arguments  do  not  help  us;  but  they  suggest 
to  us  that  we  should  think  of  the  creator." 

"  Aristotle  is  certainly  an  Epicurean.^ 
He  does  not  believe  that  God  presides  over 
human  affairs,  or  if  he  does,  he  thinks  that 
God  governs  the  world  much  as  a  sleepy 
maid  rocks  the  baby.  But  Cicero  got 
much  further.  I  believe  that  he  gathered 
together  whatever  of  good  he  found  in  all 
the  Greek  writers.  He  proves  the  existence 
of  God  from  the  generation  of  species,  a 
very  strong  argument,  which  has  often 
moved  me:  a  cow  always  bears  a  cow,  a 
horse  a  horse;  a  cow  never  bears  a  horse, 
nor  a  horse  a  cow,  nor  a  goldfinch  a 
siskin.  It  follows  therefore  that  there  must 
be  some  power  which  regulates  all  this.  We 
have  very  obvious  proof  that  God  exists, 
in  the  exact  and  perpetual  movement  of 
the  heavenly  bodies:  we  find  that  the  sun 
rises  and  sets  from  year  to  year  in  its  regular 
place.  We  reach  the  same  conclusion  from 
the  certainty  with  which  at  the  appointed 
time  the  seasons  succeed  each  other.  But 
those  things,  which  are  a  part  of  our  daily 

*  As  used  by  Luther  this  word  always  means  skeptic. 

[118] 


REASON  AND   PHILOSOPHY 

experience,  do  not  excite  our  wonder,  they 
are  hardly  deemed  worthy  of  notice.  But 
if  a  person  should  be  educated  from  his 
youth  up  in  a  dark  place,  and  after  twenty 
years  released,  he  would  be  astonished  at 
the  sun  and  wonder  what  it  was  and  why  it 
always  took  a  certain  course  at  any  given 
time!  But  to  us  it  Is  nothing,  because  it  is 
so  common." 

"  Human  nature  must  be  far,  far,  far  above 
brute  nature,  for  however  strong  and  wild 
a  beast  may  be,  it  must  stand  in  awe  of 
man  and  think  of  the  text:  *  Have  dominion 
over  them.'^  That  a  man  should  live  like 
a  pig  does  not  agree  with  his  nature  and 
position  as  a  governor.  The  brutes  are  only 
concerned  with  things  natural  and  not  with 
what  is  achieved  by  labor.  But  we  are 
commanded  to  do  something  and  be  a  part  of 
the  state  and  family  and  to  rule.  Do  not 
be  lazy  men  fit  only  to  eat  what  others 
gather.  Cicero  has  a  fine  argument  from 
the  conservation  of  species.  An  apple-tree 
does  not  bear  pears,  nor  a  cow  an  ass,  there- 
fore the  world  must  be  ruled  by  divine 
providence.  Let  genera  and  species  re- 
joice, as  Aristotle  says,  against  the  alche- 
mists.    For  no  one  can  change  this:    oxen 

1  Gen.  i,  28. 

[119] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

remain  oxen  and  men  men.  Had  I  lived 
at  the  time  of  Epicurus  and  been  a  bad 
fellow,  I  should  have  liked  to  play  him  a 
knavish  trick,  taking  his  wife  and  daughter 
and  bringing  them  to  shame,  and  then  I 
would  have  said  to  him:  '  O,  there  is  no 
divine  providence!  God  doesn't  attend  to 
those  things,  look  out  for  yourself! '  Cicero 
was  a  fine  philosopher  who  wrote  much  and 
easily.  He  will  sit  higher  [in  the  next  world] 
than  Duke  George,  or  Margrave  Joachim  I 
of  Brandenburg,  who  died  between  two 
courtesans.  If  they  were  as  well  off  as 
Cicero  is,  they  would  be  happy!  '* 

"  Cicero  is  much  more  learned  than 
Aristotle,  and  his  style  is  clear.  He  has 
taught  philosophy  well,  and  his  Offices  is  a 
charming  book!  If  I  were  young  I  would 
devote  myself  to  Cicero,  after  my  opinions 
however  had  been  thoroughly  established  by 
a  study  of  sacred  literature." 
/  "  Philosophy  has  no  knowledge  of  sacred 
things,  and  I  am  anxious  lest  it  get  mixed 
up  too  much  with  theology.  This  practice 
I  do  not  disapprove,  but  we  should  under- 
stand that  philosophy  is  merely  a  shadow,  a 
comedy,  and  a  *  certain  civil  righteousness!'^ 

*  This  phrase  is  used  in  the  Augsburg  Confession  of  natural 
'     as  opposed  to  religious  virtue. 

[120] 


REASON  AND   PHILOSOPHY 

But  to  regard  it  as  the  essence  of  theol- 
ogy, that  won't  do.  Neither  do  I  think 
that  faith  should  be  called  an  accident  or 
quality.  For  these  are  philosophical  terms 
indicating  that  faith  inheres  in  us  as  color 
in  a  wall.  But  faith  In  the  mind  Is  a  different 
thing,  for  It  Is  a  substance;  but  yet  it  is  not 
material  in  the  sense  In  which  the  body  Is 
material." 

"  If  one  consults  reason  alone,  he  Is  unable 
to  assent  to  the  articles  of  our  faith.  The 
Turk  keeps  his  subjects  to  their  work  more 
by  the  influence  of  religion  than  by  force  of 
arms,  for  he  believes  that  God  is  the  all- 
powerful  creator  of  heaven  and  earth,  that 
Christ  is  his  prophet,  that  by  faithful  service 
to  the  state  we  are  able  to  merit  heaven,  etc. 
But  I  have  learned,  apart  from  Scripture, 
amidst  the  greatest  agony  and  temptation, 
that  Christ  is  God  and  that  he  became  flesh, 
and  in  like  manner  I  have  learned  the  truth 
of  the  article  concerning  the  Trinity.  Where- 
fore it  is  not  so  much  that  I  believe  these 
articles,  as  that  I  know  by  experience  that 
they  are  true.  For  in  the  greatest  tempta- 
tions nothing  is  able  to  help  us,  except  our 
belief  that  the  Son  of  God  became  flesh  and 
bone,  and  sits  on  the  right  hand  of  the  Father 
and    intercedes   for  us.     There   is   no   more 

[121] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

powerful  consolation  than  this.  And  God 
has  defended  this  article  from  the  beginning 
of  the  world  against  all  heretics,  who  are 
innumerable,  and  he  defends  it  today  against 
the  Turk  and  the  pope,  and  he  is  always 
proving  it  by  miracles,  and  he  brings  it 
about  that  we  call  his  Son  the  Son  of  God  and 
the  true  God,  and  he  hears  all  of  us  who  call 
upon  him  in  Christ's  name.  For  what  has 
preserved  us  until  today  in  so  great  perils, 
but  prayer  to  Christ.^  Whoever  says  that 
it  was  Master  Philip  and  I  and  others,  lies 
about  us.  God  does  it  for  the  sake  of  Christ, 
of  whom  today  the  apostles  preach:  'He 
whom  you  hanged  seven  weeks  ago  still 
lives !  '^  If  it  were  not  for  the  blindness  of  the 
human  heart,  by  this  time  all  would  have 
become  believers!  Therefore  we  shall  hold 
to  those  articles  even  against  reason.  They 
have  stood  and  they  will  stand." 

Some  say  that  the  soul  after  it  takes  flight 
from  the  mortal  body  migrates  to  heaven, 
as  Christ  said:  "  Today  shalt  thou  be  with 
me  in  paradise."  To  this  Luther  replied: 
"  Yes,  but  what  is  meant  by  today?  It  is 
true  that  souls  hear,  perceive,  and  see  after 
death;  but  how  it  is  done,  we  do  not  under- 
stand.    Where   then   do   they   remain,   that 

^Actsii,  23f. 

[1221 


REASON  AND   PHILOSOPHY 

hang  upon  the  gallows  ?/  If  we  undertake  to 
gave  an  account  of  such  things  after  the 
manner  of  this  life,  then  we  are  fools.  Christ 
has  given  a  good  answer;  for  his  disciples 
also  were  without  doubt  just  as  curious.  *  He 
that  belleveth  in  me,  though  he  were  dead, 
yet  shall  he  live';^  likewise:  *  Whether  we 
live,  or  whether  we  die,  we  are  the  Lord's.'^  " 
[Before  this  he  had  said  to  his  wife,  Katie: 
**  Yes,  you  are  already  In  heaven!  Chris- 
tians look  forward  to  the  resurrection  of  the 
dead,  and  the  dead  are  living.  For  instancej 
Abraham  lives.  God  is  God  of  the  living. 
If  now  one  would  say;  *  The  soul  of  Abra- 
ham lives  with  God,  his  body  lies  here  dead,' 
it  would  be  a  distinction  which  to  my  mind 
is  mere  rot!  I  will  dispute  it.  One  must 
say:  'The  whole  Abraham,  the  entire  man, 
lives  Vy  But  you  tear  away  a  piece  of  Abraham 
and  say:  *  That  lives.'  Thus  the  philoso- 
phers talk:  *  After  the  soul  has  migrated  from 
this  home  etc'  It  must  be  a  foolish  soul, 
if  it  were  in  heaven,  to  have  a  desire  for  the 
body!" 

When  some  one  had  said  that  there  was  a 
similar  dispute  concerning  the  location  of 
the  infernal  regions,  since  no  definite  place 
had  been  set  aside  for  evil  spirits,  he  added: 

*  John,  xi,  25.  ^  '  Rom.  xiv,  8. 

^  [123] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

"  Scripture  tells  us  that;  Peter  says  in  the 
second  epistle,  chapter  ii,  that  they  are  in 
chains.  They  do  not  suffer  their  punishment 
yet,  although  they  have  been  judged.  For 
if  they  already  had  their  punishment,  the 
devils  would  not  be  doing  so  much  wicked- 
ness." 

Then  some  one  remarked :  "  And  neverthe- 
less the  creed  says:  *  He  descended  into 
hell.'"  Luther  replied:  "  That  is  something 
to  be  believed!  We  cannot  understand  it. 
So  it  goes.  People  will  dispute  how  trinity 
exists  in  unity;  since  there  is  no  relation 
between  the  finite  and  the  infinite,  how 
nature  can  produce  that  monster  without 
form,  the  God-man,  etc.  They  will  pay  no 
heed  to  the  article  concerning  justification. 
If  only  we  devoted  this  time  to  studying 
how  we  ought  to  believe  and  pray  and  be 
pious!  But  since  we  understand  that  [we 
are  not  contented],  but  must  dispute  about 
something  higher,  that  we  can  never  under- 
stand, and  moreover  our  Lord  God  wills 
that  we  shall  not  understand  it.  Such  is 
human  nature!  It  wills  to  do  what  it  is 
prevented  from  doing;  the  other  it  leaves 
without  and  comes  then  to  the  Wherefore, 
Wherefore,  Wherefore?  So  it  goes,  when 
philosophy   gets   into   theology.     When   the 

[1241 


REASON  AND  PHILOSOPHY 

devil  came  to  Eve  with  the  Wherefore,  the 
game  was  up.  Therefore,  one  should  take 
care!  As  a  safeguard,  get  down  on  the  knees 
a  while  and  pray  for  a  time  a  Paternoster! 
It  is  much  more  useful  to  you.  O,  dear  Lord 
God,  protect  us  from  the  devil  and  also  from 
ourselves!  " 


125 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


21.  JUSTIFICATION. 

"  It  is  the  opinion  of  Augustine  that  the 
law  fulfilled  by  the  strength  of  reason  does  not 
justify,  as  good  works  do  not  justify  the 
heathen;  but  if  the  Holy  Spirit  should  be 
present  to  aid,  then  the  works  of  the  law 
justify.  But  it  is  not  the  question  whether 
the  law  or  the  works  of  reason  justify,  but 
whether  the  law  fulfilled  in  the  Spirit  justi- 
fies. I  reply  that  it  does  not,  and  that  one 
who  fulfils  the  law  in  every  respect  by  virtue 
of  the  Holy  Spirit,  must  nevertheless  implore 
the  mercy  of  God,  who  has  determined  that 
we  shall  be  saved  not  through  the  law,  but 
through  Christ.  Works  never  bring  peace 
to  the  conscience,  and  Christ  never  would 
have  been  depressed  in  spirit,  had  he  not 
been  weighed  down  by  the  law,  to  which 
for  our  sake  he  subjected  himself." 

"  No  one  is  able  to  write  or  say  anything 
fitting  concerning  grace,  unless  he  has  been 
greatly  tried  by  spiritual  temptations. 
Monks  and  lawyers  are  unable  to  discuss  it 
properly.'' 

"  If  I  dispute  with  Satan  concerning  the 
law,  the  victory  is  his.  Therefore  I  will 
help  stone  Moses,  lest  he  remain  with    the 

[126] 


JUSTIFICATION 


contumacious    rather   than   with    the    timid 
and  conscientious.*' 

"  The  wicked  are  made  worse  by  the 
preaching  of  the  gospel;  for  they  learn 
from  it  only  the  license  of  the  flesh.  There- 
fore the  common  people  should  have  the 
law,  not  the  gospel.  They  are  like  ill- 
mannered,  rowdyish  boys,  who  are  only 
made  worse  by  being  honored  instead  of 
flogged.  Bad  children  need  the  rod,  not 
sweets." 

"  If  Christ  comes  to  you  when  you  are 
sorrowful  on  account  of  your  sins  and  speaks 
as  Moses,  saying,  *  What  have  you  done?' 
then  strike  him  dead.  If,  however,  he  speaks 
with  you  as  your  God  and  Saviour,  then 
prick  up  both  ears.*' 

"  God  demands  nothing  else  from  those 
who  believe  in  him  than:  *  This  do  in  re- 
membrance of  me.'^  If  you  say  however: 
*  Yes,  Lord,  but  I  shall  get  slapped  in  the 
face  for  it,'  he  will  answer  you:  '  Call  upon 
me  in  the  day  of  trouble  and  I  will  deliver 
thee,'^  and  that  is  a  service  to  God  that  is 
easily  rendered.  Likewise  it  is  easy  to  obey 
the  command:  *  Seek  ye  first  the  kingdom  of 
heaven,  and  then  be  of  good  cheer,  for  all 
things  will  be  added  unto  you.'^  He  promised 
^  Luke,  xxii,  19.  «  Ps.  xci,  15.  »  Math,  vi,  33. 

[127] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

us  help  even  on  the  cross ;  what  therefore  can 
we  lack?  " 

"  That  life,  grace  and  salvation  may  not  be 
earned  by  good  works  is  plain,  because  works 
are  not  spiritual  birth,  but  the  fruit  of  that 
birth;  for  we  do  not  become  sons  and  heirs 
of  God,  justified  and  sanctified  Christians, 
by  means  of  works,  but  having  been  made, 
born  and  created  such,  we  do  the  works. 
Thus  life,  salvation  and  grace  necessarily 
precede  works,  just  as  a  tree  does  not  become 
a  meritorious  tree  by  reason  of  its  fruit,  but 
having  been  born  a  tree,  it  bears  fruit.  For 
we  are  born  and  created  just  by  the  word  of 
grace;  we  are  not  fashioned,  prepared  and 
made  just  by  the  voice  of  the  law  or  of  works. 
Works  earn  something  other  than  life,  grace 
and  salvation,  namely:  certain  special  things 
such  as  praise,  glory  and  favor;  just  as  a 
tree  deserves  to  be  loved,  cultivated,  praised 
and  honored  by  the  others  on  account  of  its 
fruit.  Look  to  the  [spiritual]  birth  and  status 
of  a  Christian  and  at  once  you  have  destroyed 
[the  need  for]  the  merits  of  works  to  win  grace 
and  salvation  from  sin,  death  and  the  devil. 
Infants  are  saved  by  faith  alone  without 
works,  therefore  faith  alone  justifies.  If  the 
power  of  God  can  accomplish  this  in  one  case 
it  can  in  all,  for  it  is  not  effected  by  the  power 

1 128  J 


JUSTIFICATION 


of  the  infant  but  by  the  power  of  faith; 
nor  does  the  impotence  of  the  child  accom- 
pHsh  it,  otherwise  that  impotence  would  be 
merit  in  itself,  or  equivalent  to  merit. 
We  should  like  to  boast  to  the  Lord  of  our 
works;  we  should  like  to  gain  salvation 
through  them.  But  he  will  not  permit  us  to 
do  so.  Conscience  tells  me  that  I  am  not 
justified  by  works,  but  no  one  believes  it. 
*  That  thou  mightest  be  justified  when  thou 
speakest;  against  thee  only  have  I  sinned; 
in  thy  sight  have  I  done  evil.'^  What  is  the 
meaning  of  the  words:  '  Forgive  us  our 
debts'?  I  will  not  be  righteous.  What 
could  be  easier  than  to  say:  *  I  am  a  sinful 
man;  thou,  God,  art  just'?  That  would  be 
extremely  simple.  But  we  torture  ourselves, 
for  the  Spirit  says:  *  Thou  art  just,'  and  the 
flesh  is  unable  to  add:  *  That  thou  mightest 
be  justified  when  thou  speakest.'  " 

Speaking  of  the  words  of  PauP — "For 
I  am  not  ashamed  of  the  gospel  of  Christ: 
for  it  is  the  power  of  God  unto  salvation,  to 
every  one  that  believeth;  to  the  Jew  first, 
and  also  to  the  Greek.  For  therein  is  the 
righteousness  of  God  revealed  from  faith 
to  faith:  as  it  is  written.  The  just  shall  live 
by    faith,"  —  Luther    said:     *' These    words 

*  Ps.  li,  4.  -  Romans,  i,  16f. 

1129] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

were  ever  running  in  my  mind.  For  I 
had  not  been  able  to  understand  the  phrase 
*  the  righteousness  of  God,'^  wherever  it 
stands  in  Scripture,  otherwise  than  that  God 
was  both  righteous  himself  and  judged  right- 
eously. Sometimes  I  would  ply  myself  too 
warmly  with  this  text.  I  stood  and  knocked^ 
if  haply  there  might  be  some  one  to  open 
unto  me,  but  there  was  no  one  to  open. 
I  did  not  know  at  all  what  it  meant  until  I 
came  in  my  reading  to  the  words:  *  The  just 
shall  live  by  his  faith. '^  This  sentence  is  an 
explanation  of  that  *  righteousness  of  God.' 
When  I  discovered  this  I  was  filled  with  a 
joy  passing  all  others.     And  thus  the  road 

^  Justitia  Dei,  This  saying  is  one  of  many  giving  Luther's 
account  of  his  conversion,  of  which  the  most  famous  was 
published  in  the  preface  to  his  works,  1545  (reprinted,  Lutheri 
opera  latina  varii  argumenti,  Erlangen,  1865,  i,  15if).  The 
present  saying  is  two  or  three  years  earlier.  According  to 
Luther  the  crux  with  him  was  the  phrase  "justitia  Dei," 
which  at  first  he  understood  as  the  justice  of  God  judging  men; 
later,  apparently  in  1515,  he  came  to  see  that  it  was  "the 
righteousness  of  God"  in  us,  which,  being  apprehended  by 
faith,  was  the  cause  of  man's  salvation  rather  than  of  his 
reprobation.  On  the  subject  of  Luther's  conversion  see 
American  Journal  of  Psychology,  xxiv,  360fF  (1913)  and 
Harvard  Theological  Review,  vi,  407ff  (1913).  The  most 
brilliant  explanation  of  the  phenomena  of  the  religious  life 
in  general  is  found  in  A.  R.  Burr's  Religious  Confessions  and 
Confessants,  1914.  Cf.  especially  p.  173,  for  light  on  the 
present  subject. 

2  Matthew,  vii,  7. 

2  Romans,  i,  17.  Luther  began  lecturing  on  Romans  in 
May,  1515. 

[130] 


JUSTIFICATION 


was  opened  to  me  when  I  read  in  Psalms:^ 

*  In  thy  justice  make  me  free,'  that  is,  '  In 
thy  mercy  make  me  free.'  Prior  to  that  time 
I  dreaded  and  hated  the  Psalms  and  other 
parts  of  Scripture  whenever  they  mentioned 

*  the  righteousness  of  God,'  by  which  I 
understood  that  he  himself  was  righteous 
and  judged  us  according  to  our  sins,  not  that 
he  accepted  us  and  made  us  righteous.  All 
Scripture  stood  as  a  wall,  until  I  was  en- 
lightened by  the  words:  '  The  just  shall  live 
by  faith.'  From  this  I  learned  that  the 
righteousness  of  God  is  faith  in  the  mercy  of 
God,  by  which  he  himself  justifies  us  through 
grace." 

Explaining  the  meaning  of  justification 
through  faith  by  a  comparison,  Luther  said: 
"  A  son  is  not  made  heir  to  his  father's  es- 
tate, but  he  is  born  an  heir  and  even  succeeds 
to  it  without  any  work  or  merit,  but  in  the 
meantime,  nevertheless,  the  father  commands 
and  urges  his  son  to  apply  himself  diligently 
to  this  or  that,  and  promises  him  some  little 
gift  as  a  reward,  that  he  may  obey  more 

*  There  is  no  verse  in  Psalms  just  like  this.  Luther  was 
thinking  of  Psalm  iv,  2,  3,  as  is  shown  by  his  commentary- 
based  on  lectures  delivered  in  the  winter  of  1513-1514.  In 
this  he  says:  "My  righteousness  is  not  mine  but  his  who  has 
heard  me.  .  .  For  in  that  he  pities  me,  ipso  facto  he  justifies 
me.  His  mercy  is  my  righteousness."  IVerke,  Weimar,  iii, 
42f. 

11311 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

willingly.  He  says  for  example:  *  If  you 
are  good  and  obedient,  and  study  faithfully, 
I  will  buy  you  a  new  coat,'  or,  *  Come  here  to 
me,  I  will  give  you  a  fine  apple.'  Thus  he 
trains  the  son  to  habits  of  industry;  although 
the  inheritance  belongs  to  him  for  other 
reasons,  yet  these  things  are  done  for  his 
education.  Even  so  God  deals  with  us. 
He  coaxes  us  with  promises  of  spiritual  and 
temporal  blessings,  although  eternal  life  is 
freely  given  to  those  who  believe  in  Christ, 
whom  he  regards  as  his  adopted  children. 
Thus  we  ought  to  teach  in  the  church  that 
God  will  reward  good  works,  but  we  should 
keep  none  the  less  pure  the  article  of  justifica- 
tion, which  is  the  head  and  cause  of  all  other 
promises.  Ought  we  to  say  then:  *  Believe, 
and  you  will  be  saved,  no  matter  what  you 
do '  ?  No,  that  is  nonsense.  Let  us  re- 
member, therefore,  that  it  is  to  guide  us  in 
the  right  path  that  God  makes  those  promises 
of  reward  by  which  he  invites  and  entices 
us  to  do  well,  to  serve  our  neighbor  and  to  be 
obedient." 

Luther  said  many  things  concerning  the 
majesty  of  the  article  of  justification,  which 
is  a  matter  not  comprehended  by  human  wis- 
dom; for  we  are  all  by  nature  more  zealous 
for  righteousness  than  for  the  free  mercy  of 

[1321 


JUSTIFICATION 


God.  Therefore  the  parable  in  Matthew  xx 
concerning  the  laborers  in  the  vineyard  is 
the  most  destructive  of  thunderbolts  against 
the  opinion  of  the  flesh.  He  also  related  the 
anecdote  from  the  lives  of  the  fathers  con- 
cerning a  certain  anchorite  of  most  holy  life, 
who  was  in  the  agony  of  death:  "When 
another  old  father,  together  with  a  young 
man,  wished  to  visit  him  in  his  cell,  these 
two  were  met  by  a  robber,  who  was  also 
going  to  see  the  sick  monk.  The  robber, 
standing  before  the  door,  where  he  saw  and 
heard  the  piety  of  the  dying  man,  breathed 
a  sigh,  saying:  *  Alas,  I  also  should  have 
lived  thusl'  The  sick  man  replied:  *  Cer- 
tainly, thou  shouldst  have  lived  a  just  life, 
as  I  have  done,  hadst  thou  wished  to  be 
saved,'  and  with  these  words  he  expired. 
The  young  man  saw  his  soul  being  borne  away 
by  devils,  and  he  wept.  [As  the  old  man  and 
the  youth  departed],  the  robber,  who  re- 
pented his  sins,  followed  them,  wishing  to 
confess  and  to  obtain  absolution,  and  he 
came  with  such  haste  that  he  fell  headlong 
and  died;  and  as  he  died  angels  received 
his  soul,  seeing  which,  the  youth  laughed. 
When  the  old  man  observed  the  strange  con- 
duct of  his  companion,  who  wept  at  the  death 
of  a  most  saintly  man  and  laughed  at  the 

[  133  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

misfortune  of  the  robber  [he  asked  the  reason]. 
The  youth  replied  that  he  had  acted  piously 
in  weeping  when  he  saw  the  devils  carry  off 
the  spirit  of  the  proud  man,  while  here  he  had 
witnessed  the  salvation  of  a  penitent  soul 
and  had  rightly  rejoiced.  So  it  goes  in  the 
kingdom  of  Christ,  where  the  last  shall  be 
first ;^  for  God  can  endure  no  sin  less  pa- 
tiently than  the  proud  arrogance  of  the  self- 
righteous." 

"  Augustine  did  not  rightly  understand  the 
doctrine  of  justification  by  faith. "^ 

1  Matt,  xix,  30. 

2  This  saying  is  particularly  interesting  in  view  of  the 
opinion  sometimes  held  that  Luther  derived  his  doctrine 
from  this  father  of  the  church. 


134] 


PREDESTINATION 


.    \ 


22.  PREDESTINATION. 

Luther  said;^  "  When  a  man  begins  to 
discuss  predestination,  the  temptation  is 
like  an  inextinguishable  fire;  the  more  he 
disputes,  the  more  he  despairs.  Our  Lord 
God  is  opposed  to  this  disputation  and 
accordingly  he  has  provided  against  it 
baptism,  the  Word,  the  sacraments,  and 
various  signs.  In  these  we  should  trust  and 
say:  *  I  am  baptized,  I  believe  in  Jesus 
Christ;  what  does  it  concern  me,  whether 
or  not  I  am  predestined?'  He  has  given  ( ^^^* 
us  ground  to  stand  on,  that  is,  Jesus  Christ, 
and  through  him  we  may  climb  to  heaven. 
He  is  the  one  way  and  the  gate  to  the  Father. 
But  when  we  begin  in  the  devil's  name  to 
build  first  on  the  roof  above,  scorning  the 
ground,  then  we  falll  ;  If  we  only  could  be- 
lieve in  the  promises  which  God  has  given, 
and  direct  our  gaze  on  God  himself  as  he 
speaks,  we  should  esteem  his  words  highly; 
but  when  we  hear  them  from  the  mouth  of  a 
poor  human  being,  we  pay  no  more  heed  than 
to  the  lowing  of  a  cow." 

"  The  discussion  of  predestination  should 
be  wholly  avoided.  Staupitz  used  to  say: 
'  If  you  have  a  desire  to  dispute  concerning 

[135] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

predestination,  begin  with  the  wounds  of 
Christ,  and  the  desire  will  cease;  if  you 
continue  to  argue  about  it,  you  will  lose 
Christ,  the  Word,  the  sacraments  and  every- 
thing.'^ I  forget  all  that  Christ  and  God  are, 
when  I  get  to  thinking  about  this  matter, 
and  come  to  believe  that  God  is  a  villain. 
We  ought  to  remain  by  the  Word,  in  which 
God  is  revealed  to  us  and  salvation  offered, 
if  we  believe  it.  Moreover  in  trying  to 
understand  predestination,  we  forget  God, 
we  cease  to  praise  and  begin  to  blaspheme. 
In  Christ,  however,  are  hid  all  treasures; 
without  him  none  may  be  had.  Therefore 
we  should  give  no  place  whatever  to  this 
argument  concerning  predestination. '^^y 

"  I  have  been  vexed,"  said  the  doctor, 
"  with  speculations  as  to  what  God  is  going 
to  do  with  me,  but  at  length  I  rejected  these 
thoughts,  and  threw  myself  on  God's  will  as 
revealed  in  the  Scriptures.  We  can  do  no 
more.  The  hidden  will  cannot  be  investi- 
gated by  man,  and  God  conceals  it  on  ac- 
count of  that  extremely  shrewd  spirit,  the 
devil,  in  order  that  he  may  fail.  The  re- 
vealed will  the  devil  has  learned  from  us; 
the  hidden  will  God  keeps  to  himself.  We 
can  learn  enough  from  the  humanity  of 
Christ,   in   which   the   Father  has   revealed 

[136] 


PREDESTINATION 


himself,  and  we  are  foolish  to  neglect  the 
Word  and  will  of  the  Father  as  revealed  in 
Christ,  while  we  scrutinize  mysteries  which 
ought  to  be  adored.  On  account  of  this 
many  come  to  grief.'* 


137] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


23.  THE  PAPACY. 

"  The  world  is  unwilling  to  accept  God  as 
the  true  God,  and  the  devil  as  the  real  devil, 
therefore  it  is  compelled  to  endure  their 
representative,  namely  the  pope,  who  is 
the  false  vicar  of  God  and  the  true  vicar  of 
the  devil." 

"  The  papacy  is  a  government  by  which  the 
wicked  and  those  who  despise  God  deserve 
to  be  ruled,  for  it  is  fitting  that  those  who 
are  unwilling  to  obey  God  of  their  own  ac- 
cord should  be  forced   to  obey  a  scoundrel." 

"  The  pope  is  truly  a  devil,  next  to  the  real 
devil  himself.  This  is  easily  proved  in 
this  Clement,^  for  he  is  bad  because  he  is 
an  Italian,  worse  for  being  a  Florentine,  and 
worst  because  he  is  a  bastard.  If  you  can 
think  of  anything  worse,  add  it." 

"  The  pope  is  devising  most  wicked  plots, 
but  he  will  have  no  more  success  than  did 
Ferdinand,^  the  king  of  Hungary.  After 
Satan  there  is  no  worse  rogue  than  the  pope. 
He  has  riches,  power  and  authority;  but  the 

1  Pope  Clement  VII,  1523-1534.  Cf.  Smith,  Luther,  p.  236. 
Luther  speaks  in  1531. 

2  The  bigoted  Catholic  brother  of  Charles  V,  who  was  at 
this  time  acting  against  the  Lutherans  at  the  Diet  of  Ratisbon, 
1532. 

[1381 


THE  PAPACY 


Lord's  prayer  is  sufficient  protection  against 
him.  He  has  seen  Rome  submerged,^  plun- 
dered and  desolated,^  and  nevertheless  this 
good  Clement  is  wholly  unmoved  by  these 
warnings.  He  must  indeed  be  a  fine  fellow, 
who  is  frightened  by  no  terrors  and  devises 
evils  without  end!  And  if  the  king  of 
France,  with  whom  he  is  in  alliance,  is  de- 
feated by  the  emperor,  he  will  invite  in  the 
Turk  as  our  guest.  But  his  schemes  will 
fail.  He  is  a  Florentine,  a  bastard,  and  an 
enemy  of  God.'' 

"  The  pope  put  me  under  the  ban,  and 
since  then  I  have  grown  larger  in  body  and 
soul;  now  I  put  him  under  the  ban,  but  my 
ban  is  stronger  than  his,  for  he  is  growing 
smaller  and  weaker,  and  will  yet  be  wholly 
ruined." 

"  The  people  of  Rome  used  to  say  that 
since  the  time  of  Peter  no  pope  had  been 
more  powerful  than  Julius^  and  now  he  lies 
in  the  dust.  Alas,  priests  should  preach  and 
pray." 

■  "  One  time  when  two  persons  were  disput- 
ing at  the  pope's  table  as  to  the  immortality 

1  By  the  flood  of  Oct.  8  and  9,  1530.  See  Cellini,  Auto- 
biography, Bk.  i,  chap.  55,  also  Luther's  Briejtvechsd,  cd. 
Enders,  viii,  325f. 

^  In  the  sack  of  Rome,  1527. 

•Julius  II,  1503-1513. 

[1391 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

of  the  soul,  one  being  for  and  the  other 
against  the  doctrine,  the  pope  finally  ex- 
pressed his  opinion,  saying  that  he  who  held 
the  soul  to  be  immortal  had  the  better  of  the 
argument,  but  that  for  his  part  he  agreed 
with  the  other,  for  thus  he  could  live  more 
merrily.  What  a  shame  that  such  wretches 
and  Epicureans  should  have  the  government 
of  Christian  churches!  Thus  under  Leo  X 
it  was  decreed  at  the  Lateran  Council  that 
the  priests  should  wear  long  coats  reaching 
to  the  ankles,  high  shoes,  large  tonsures, 
and  should  not  discuss  the  question  whether 
the  soul  was  mortal  or  immortal."^ 

When  mention  was  made  of  the  pope  and 
of  Rome,  and  that  there  were  learned  men 
there,  Luther  said  that  a  certain  monk  at 
Rome  had  preached  as  follows:  "  In  the 
time  of  the  martyrs  there  was  conscientia 
(conscience);  afterwards  in  the  time  of  the 
popes    and    bishops    the    syllable    C07i    was 

*The  editor  of  the  Tischreden  In  the  Weimar  edition, 
vol.  ii,  no.  2213b,  referring  only  to  Hefele-Hergenrother's 
Konciliengeschichte,  was  unable  to  say  whether  these  state- 
ments of  Luther  were  correct  or  not.  An  examination  of  the 
decrees  of  this  council  shows  that  they  are  substantially  so. 
In  a  decree  of  December  19,  1513,  the  council  condemned  the 
heresy,  stated  to  be  rapidly  growing,  that  the  soul  is  mortal, 
and,  in  order  to  remove  all  ground  for  error,  forbade  all  the 
clergy,  secular  and  regular,  to  lecture  for  five  years  at  the 
universities  on  philosophy  or  on  the  classics  (poesis).  Mansi, 
Collectio  amplissima  conciliorum,  xxxii,  842f.  The  other 
regulations  spoken  of  by  Luther  are  found  ibid.  coll.  879ff, 

1140] 


THE   PAPACY 


erased  from  the  word,  leaving  scientia  (knowl- 
edge) ;  now  the  syllable  sci  has  been  omitted, 
and  only  entia  (substance  or  wealth)  remains/' 

"  The  papacy  is  doubly  founded  on  the 
mass,  which  they  call  the  worship  of  God 
and  which  they  make  an  instrument  for 
raking  in  all  the  wealth  of  the  world  to  give 
it  to  the  pope.  The  mass  is  the  rock  on  which 
the  papists  build  in  spirit  and  in  flesh;  it  is 
now  fallen  in  spirit  and  God  will  soon  de- 
stroy it  in  the  flesh.  If  God  lets  me  die  a 
natural  death,  he  will  do  a  great  spite  to  the 
papists  who  would  have  burned  me,  and  he 
will  set  them  at  nought." 

"  I  believe,  thank  God!  that  many  papists 
will  be  saved,  although  they  never  heard  the 
gospel  preached  as  it  now  is.  I  mean  those 
to  whom  the  crucifix  was  shown  while  they 
were  dying  and  were  told  to  put  all  their 
trust  in  him  who  saved  them.  But  it  is  up 
with  those  to  whom  the  monks  came  with 
their  cowls  and  self-appointed,  supereroga- 
tory works." 

"  The  pope  has  been  the  greatest  money- 
getter.  Emperors  and  kings  coin  money 
from  gold  and  silver,  but  the  pope  coins 
money  from  all  that  he  has  made,  from  in- 
dulgences, the  sacraments,  dispensations  from 
fasting,  by  his  power  both  civil  and  ecclesi- 

[1411 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

astical  and  by  his  regulation  of  marriage. 
From  baptism  alone  he  could  get  nothing, 
for  infants  are  born  naked  and  poor  and 
therefore  have  nothing  to  give." 

On  December  12  (1536),  Dr.  Bugenhagen 
brought  Martin  Luther  a  book^  on  the 
Council  of  Constance,  telling  how  it  held 
its  sessions  and  everything  it  did.  That 
evening  Martin  Luther  read  it  with  continu- 
ous attention,  and  found  in  it  among  other 
things  the  decree  that  a  safe-conduct  to  a 
heretic  was  not  to  be  observed.^  Then  our 
father  Luther  said:  "  If  we  are  cited  and 
appear,^  it  will  be  wise  to  assail  them  at  our 
first  meeting.  It  is  all  one  whether  our 
wrath  comes  first  or  last.  Therefore  let 
us  attack  the  papacy  with  the  article  of 
justification:  I  believe  in  Jesus  Christ; 
the  just  shall  live  by  his  faith.'*  This  thunder- 
bolt would  shatter  the  whole  papacy,  with 
its  private  masses,  justifying  works,  purga- 
tory, monastic  life,  invocation  of  the  saints 

*The  book  was,  Ulrich  von  Richenthal:  Das  Concilium^ 
so  zu  Constantz  gehalten  ist  tvorden.  2d  edition,  Augsburg, 
December,  1536. 

'This  decree,  passed  by  the  council  at  its  XlXth  Session, 
September  23, 1415,  is  reprinted  in  Mansi,  Collectio  concilioruniy 
xxvii,  799,  and  in  Carl  Mirbt:  Quellen  zur  Geschichte  des 
Papsttums,^  1911,  no.  319. 

*  I.e.,  at  the  council  summoned  to  meet  at  Mantua  in  1537. 
On  this  see  Smith,  Life  and  Letters  of  Luther,  chap,  xxviii. 

*  Romans,  i,  17. 

[1421 


THE   PAPACY 


and  pilgrimages.  If  we  stand  fast  in  that, 
all  other  articles  conceded  by  us  will  ac- 
complish nothing.  For  Campeggio^  said  that 
before  he  would  let  the  mass  be  taken  from 
him,  he  would  let  himself  be  broken  on  the 
wheel.  I  answered  that  before  I  would  de- 
fend that  mass,  I  would  let  myself  be  burned 
to  ashes,  and  more.  If  we  go  on  in  this  man- 
ner at  a  council  it  will  soon  come  to  an  end, 
for  the  two  heads,  Christ  and  the  devil, 
must  oppose  each  other,  and  can  never  be 
reconciled.  Therefore,  no  union  is  to  be 
hoped  for  from  this  council,  for  they  come  to 
it,  not  to  yield  to  Christ,  but  rashly  to  judge 
and  condemn." 

"  Great  and  insolent  has  been  the  avarice 
of  the  pope,  for  the  devil  has  chosen  Rome 
especially  as  the  place  of  avarice.  Thus 
the  ancients  said:  *  Roma,  Radix  Omnium 
Malorum  Avaritia.'^  And  in  a  very  old 
book  I  found  this  verse,  *  Versus  amor  mundi 
caput  est  et  bestia  terrae.'^  For  their 
rapacity  is  horrible,  inasmuch  as  they  wish 
to  seize  everything  without  labor  of  their 
hands,  without  preaching  or  ministering  to 

*  Cardinal   Lorenzo   Campeggio,t  1539,  one   of   the   papal 

nuncios  to  negotiate  with  the  Lutherans. 
2  An  acrostic  meaning,  "The  root  of  all  evils  is  avarice." 
'  A  rebus  meaning,  "Amor  [lovel  turned  around  [i.f.,  Roma] 

is  the  capital  of  the  world  and  the  beast  of  the  earth." 

[143  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

the  church,  but  only  by  superstition  and  the 
sale  of  their  works.  Thus  Peter  paints  their 
greed  in  excellent  words,  *  Having  their 
heart  full  of  avarice.'^  I  believe  that  no 
one  can  know  what  the  passion  of  greed  is 
unless  they  know  Rome,  for  all  other  fraud, 
imposture  and  greed  are  nothing  compared 
to  the  superstition  of  Rome.  Thus  at  the 
Diet  of  Worms^  the  whole  empire  peti- 
tioned the  emperor  against  their  rapacity, 
saying  that  if  he  didn't  stop  it,  they  would. 
At  that  time  I  had  just  published  in  my 
book  to  the  German  nobility  what  I  had 
found  out  from  Dr.  Wick.^  Then  the 
course  of  the  gospel  began  excellently,  but 
those  three  sects,  of  Carlstadt,  Miinzer  and 
the  Anabaptists,  greatly  impeded  it.*  But 
even  after  that  God  helped  us  and  brought 
down  the  papacy  without  my  wish.  Truly 
great  is  the  power  of  the  pope  over  kings  and 
rulers,  but  I  attacked  it  in  my  book  against 

1  2  Peter  ii,  3. 

"At  the  Diet  of  Worms  in  1521  a  list  of  grievances,  the 
Gravamina,  against  ecclesiastical  abuses,  was  drawn  up. 

•  Luther's  famous  pamphlet,  To  the  Christian  Nobility  of  the 
German  Nation,  exposed  many  abuses  of  the  papal  govern- 
ment at  Rome,  which  he  had  learned  to  know  through  a 
Dr.  John  von  Wick.  Cf.  Luther's  Correspondence,  translated 
and  edited  by  Preserved  Smith,  vol.  i  (1913),  p.  341. 

*0n  this  see  Smith:  Life  and  Letters  of  Martin  Luther, 
chap.  XIII. 

[1441 


THE   PAPACY 


excommunication,^  which  book  I  wrote  with 
no  animus  against  the  papacy,  but  only 
against  the  abuse  of  its  power.  But  they 
were  horrified  because  their  consciences 
were  guilty." 

"  The  papal  church  has  two  pillars,  the 
mass  and  the  celibacy  of  the  clergy.  From 
the  mass  has  flowed  every  kind  of  impiety, 
and  it  has  been  the  most  abominable  of 
abominations.  And  nevertheless  they  re- 
gard it  as  the  highest  worship  of  God.  From 
the  earliest  years  I  have  been  sorely  tried 
as  follows:  '  If  the  mass  is  the  highest  wor- 
ship of  God,  good  heavens,  how  wicked  you 
have  been  towards  God! '  But  it  is  certain 
that  the  mass  is  Mauzzim.^  As  to  the 
celibacy  of  the  priesthood,  they  see  them- 
selves that  all  have  concubines!  Wherefore 
I  wonder  why  they  are  so  blind.  Marriage 
is  a  creation  of  God,  by  God  ordained.  We 
could  not  have  been  deprived  of  it  without 
our  nature's  being  impaired,  and  the  Gen- 
tiles compelled  many  to  enter  matrimony. 
Even  as  it  is  we  have  been  reluctant  to  marry 
on    account   of   the    burden   of   matrimony, 

^  Sermon  on  the  Ban,  published  1520. 

'  A  Hebrew  word  interpreted  by  Luther  as  the  name  of  a 
false  god.  See  Daniel  xi,  38  (in  the  German  Bible,  xii,  3).  "Und 
seiner  Vater  Gott  wird  er  nicht  achten.  .  .  .  Aber  an  dess 
Statt  wird  er  seinen  Gott  Maussim  ehren." 


[145 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

and  nevertheless  the  papists  forbid  it.  They 
won't  be  able  to  leave  it  thus.  The  cloisters 
of  begging  friars  and  all  that  sort  of  thing 
fail  of  themselves,  yet  they  still  seek  to 
defend  them.  The  emperor  knows  it,  but 
what  will  he  do?     His  hands  are  tied." 

"  No  one  dared  to  read  the  canon  law, 
unless  he  was  anointed,  and  nevertheless  it 
has  neither  erudition  nor  any  peculiar  merit, 
nor  is  it  good  Latin.  I  believe  that  some 
ignorant  monk  wrote  it.  But  so  sacred  was 
it,  that  he  who  opposed  it,  was  thought  to 
move  heaven  and  earth.  When  I  first  wrote 
against  the  mass  and  the  canon  law,  I  could 
not  believe  that  any  one  would  be  able  to 
yield  obedience  to  me;  and  I  wrote  for  my- 
self and  Staupitz  and  Wenzel  Link.  But 
when  the  little  book^  appeared,  then  I  found 
many,  who  had  had  my  trouble,  who  were 
grateful  to  be  freed  from  so  great  fear.  For 
under  the  papacy  I  saw  many,  who  spoke 
the  words  of  consecration  with  such  great 
fear,  that  they  trembled  and  stammered, 
although  it  was  a  sin  to  falter  in  a  single 
syllable.  The  canons  were  glad  to  hear  that 
the  mass  had  been  attacked.  Ah,  how  the 
devil  would  have  laughed  in  his  fist,  if  we 

1  The  sermon  on  the  New  Testament,  that  is,  on  the  Holy- 
Mass,  translated  in  The  Works  of  Martin  Luther^  Philadelphia, 
1915,vol.  l,pp.287ff. 

fl46] 


THE   PAPACY 


also  had  suffered  martyrdom!  No  one  to- 
day realizes  how  miserable  we  were  under 
the  papacy." 

"  The  papists  have  gained  no  knowledge 
of  Christ  either  of  the  gospel  or  of  faith,  so 
excluded  has  Christ  been  from  the  world. 
The  Turk  commands  in  the  east,  the  pope 
in  the  west.  These  are  the  last,  most 
perilous  times.  The  papists  thought  that 
Christ  was  a  judge,  that  the  gospel  was  a  new 
law,  that  faith  was  an  assent  or  condition 
agreed  to  without  fear.  Thus  Eck  thinks 
that  faith  is  an  inherent  quality  of  the  heart, 
as  color  in  the  wall;  that  love  is  the  light  by 
which  faith  may  be  seen.  Such  is  their 
philosophy!  Since  therefore  the  pope  knows 
nothing  else  concerning  our  religion,  yet 
condemns  us,  we  shall  not  admit  the  papal 
legates  to  the  conference  at  Worms. ^  For 
that  was  the  agreement.  Since  the  pope 
is  a  heretic,  an  idolater.  Antichrist  and  the 
red  whore  reeking  with  the  blood  of  the 
pious,  therefore  we  will  not  admit  him  to  our 
presence.  As  a  private  individual  he  may 
listen  to  our  discussion,  but  he  is  not  to 
interfere.  Even  if  they  are  willing  to  grant 
us    sacerdotal    marriage,    the    eucharist    in 

*  A  religious   colloquy  at  Worms   between   Catholics   and 
Protestants  in  the  interest  of  reunion. 


[147] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

both  kinds,  freedom  from  private  mass  and 
ceremonies,  in  order  that  we  might  be  bound 
to  recognize  them  as  we  did  at  Augsburg 
[in  1530],  yet  we  shall  not  do  it  now,  for  then 
we  did  not  exclude  the  pope,  nor  had  we 
ourselves  ordained  priests;  but  that  we  do  so 
is  due  to  them,  for  they  will  not  suffer  our 
priests  to  be  ordained  by  them  except  on 
conditions  which  they  themselves  are  unable 
to  grant.  In  fine,  to  make  a  treaty  between 
us  and  the  pope,  is  to  make  a  treaty  be- 
tween God  and  Belial.  Nothing  will  come 
of  it." 

"  It  is  strange  that  no  power  in  former 
ages  was  able  to  overthrow  the  papacy. 
Barbarossa  and  Frederick  II  were  strong 
enough,  but  they  couldn't  do  it.  Today  no 
imperial  or  royal  power  can  hold  up  the 
tottering  structure,  for  the  pope's  knavery 
has  been  revealed  through  the  Word.  Where- 
fore it  is  now  plainly  falling  in  ruins.  For  the 
papacy  is  essentially  a  lie,  and  a  lie  is  the 
power  of  the  devil  for  the  destruction  of 
every  believer,  just  as  the  truth  of  God  is 
the  power  of  God  for  the  salvation  of  every 
believer.  I  do  not  believe  that  the  Turkish 
kingdom  can  be  overcome  by  force,  but  some 
good  man  will  appear,  who  will  assail  the 
dogma  of  Mohammed." 

[1481 


THE  PAPACY 


Luther's  son  brought  to  him  a  caterpillar 
in  the  garden.  "  What  beautiful  colors," 
said  Luther,  "  this  most  noxious  worm  has! 
Thus  also  the  pope  is  more  beautifully  arrayed 
than  the  emperor,  but  more  harmful  than 
the  devil." 

When  some  one  remarked  that  the  papists 
gladly  read  the  books  of  Luther  against  the 
peasants  and  the  Sacramentarians,  the  doc- 
tor replied:  *' They  wouldn't  be  able  to  de- 
fend any  of  them,  any  more  than  they  know 
how  to  defend  any  article  of  faith.  They 
don't  read  their  Bibles,  but  depend  on  Lom- 
bard's Sentences  and  what  custom  has 
introduced.  But  such  authority  is  no  longer 
accepted,  for  the  proof  is  demanded.  This 
they  are  unable  to  furnish;  and  indeed  their 
whole  system  is  founded  on  nothing  but 
custom.  For  example,  some  one  placed  the 
consecrated  water  in  the  church,  afterwards 
by  imitation  the  practice  came  to  prevail, 
and  so  it  has  remained." 

"  If  the  pope  will  throw  away  his  crown 
and  descend  from  his  throne  and  primacy, 
and  confess  that  he  has  erred,  has  destroyed 
the  church  and  poured  out  innocent  blood, 
then  we  will  receive  him  into  the  church. 
Otherwise  we  must  always  regard  him  as 
Antichrist." 

11491 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

When  Luther  was  so  very  ill  at  Scmalkal- 
den^  that  all  hope  had  been  given  up,  and 
he  seemed  at  the  point  of  death,  he  bade 
farewell  to  the  brethren,  saying  as  his  last 
words:  "This  one  thing  preserve  when  I 
am  dead,  namely,  hatred  towards  the  Roman 
pontiff." 

»In  1537. 


[ISO] 


MONKS  AND  MONASTICISM 


24.  MONKS  AND  MONASTICISM. 

When  the  remark  was  made  at  table  that 
the  cowl  was  an  Italian  vest,  Luther  replied: 
**  I  should  call  it,  rather,  an  Italian  pest." 

"  Franciscans  are  our  Lord  God's  lice, 
which  the  devil  has  put  on  his  skin.  Domin- 
icans are  fleas,  which  the  devil  has  put  in 
our  Lord  God's  shirt." 

"  Christ  often  represents  himself  as  our 
bridegroom  and  priest,  a  picture  which  is 
exceedingly  full  of  comfort.  Likewise  he 
represents  us  as  his  bride  and  daughter, 
as  in  Hosea  ii:  'And  I  will  betroth  thee 
unto  me  forever;  yea,  I  will  betroth  thee 
unto  me  in  righteousness,  and  in  judgment 
and  in  loving  kindness,  and  in  mercies;  I 
will  even  betroth  thee  unto  me  in  faithful- 
ness; and  thou  shall  know  the  Lord.'  Like- 
wise in  Ps.  ex:  'The  Lord  hath  sworn  and 
will  not  repent.  Thou  art  a  priest  forever 
after  the  order  of  Melchisedec'  Although 
he  enters  into  spiritual  marriage  with  us  and 
swears  that  he  will  be  our  High  Priest, 
nevertheless  we  do  not  believe  it,  but  com- 
mit fornication  with  Baalim  and  choose  for 
ourselves  monkery.     Fie  on  you,  Moloch!" 

[151] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

"  The  opinion  of  those  who  think  that  the 
pope  invented  the  doctrine  of  the  ccHbacy 
of  the  priesthood  for  the  purpose  of  enriching 
the  priests,  who  would  thus  live  without 
wives  and  children,  is  false;  for  it  is  by  the 
outward  semblance  of  holiness,  which  the 
celibate  exhibits,  that  the  pope  has  advanced 
himself  and  all  his  followers  to  the  greatest 
opulence  and  has  attained  to  such  authority 
that  he  has  kings  under  his  feet." 

"Monks  are  made  by  two  causes:  im- 
patience and  despair.  For  while  they  think 
that  some  of  the  evils  among  men  can  be 
borne,  they  despair  of  bearing  with  the  utter 
depravity  of  the  world.  Therefore  they  flee 
the  world  and  say:  '  The  world  is  too 
bad.'  '' 

"  God  first  created   a  single  man,  which 
was  a  good  idea.     Then  he  created  woman, 
\  and  therewith  trouble  began.     And  so  the 

monks,  acquiescing  in  God's  first  plan,  live 
without  wives,  for  they  are  wiser  than  God. 
If  the  emperor  should  root  out  this  whole 
Franciscan  order  and  keep  their  books  as  a 
perpetual  memorial  of  their  abominations, 
he  would  do  a  worthy  deed.  The  Augustin- 
ians  and  Benedictines  are  nothing  compared 
with  them." 

When  Jonas  complained  of  the  nuns,  that 

[1521 


MONKS  AND  MONASTICISM 

they  had  thrown  away  their  cowls  and  had 
neglected  the  canonical  hours,  while  they 
made  use  of  all  the  privileges  of  the  convent, 
Luther  replied:  "  I  am  for  the  nuns.  I 
should  like  to  comfort  them  with  a  letter. 
Would  that  the  nuns  were  all  of  that  sort, 
then  their  convents  would  become  schools, 
and  they  would  be  free  to  marry.  For  it  is 
hard  for  rulers  and  kings  to  give  their  daugh- 
ters in  marriage  to  husbands  of  lower  rank, 
and  so  they  thrust  them  into  convents. 
It  was  an  excellent  law  of  Moses,  whereby 
only  the  first-born  enjoyed  royal  authority, 
while  the  others  were  subjects.  So  it  is 
even  to-day  in  the  East,  and  it  would  be  a 
most  wholesome  law  for  us."^ 

"  The  papists  and  Anabaptists  teach  that 
if  you  would  know  Christ,  you  must  be 
alone,  like  a  hermit,  and  not  associate  with 
men.  This  is  devilish  advice  against  the 
two  great  commandments.  The  first  great 
commandment  requires  faith  and  fear  of 
God,  the  second  love  to  one's  neighbor,  which 
means  we  ought  to  preach  to  and  pray  for 
them  and  not  flee  into  corners.  Their 
precept  also  opposes  marriage,  the  household 

*  Saxony  suffered  greatly  from  the  lack  of  this  rule,  which 
was  not  introduced  till  the  close  of  the  17th  century,  although 
the  Hohenzollern  of  Brandenburg  were  wise  enough  to  adopt 
it  in  1473. 

[153] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

and  the  state,  and  is  against  the  life  of  Christ 
who  was  not  willingly  alone,  but  was  always 
in  the  midst  of  a  throng  of  men,  so  that  he 
was  never  alone  except  when  he  prayed. 
Goodbye  to  those  who  say: 

*  Keep  to  yourself  apart, 
Then  you  are  pure  in  heart.'  " 

"  The  world  does  not  know  the  hidden 
treasures  of  God.  It  cannot  be  persuaded 
that  the  maid  working  obediently  and  the 
servant  faithfully  performing  his  duty,  or 
the  woman  rearing  her  children,  are  as  good 
as  the  praying  monk  who  strikes  his  breast 
and  wrestles  with  the  spirit.'' 

"  If  the  devil  wishes  to  deprive  one  of  his 
reason,  he  secludes  him,  taking  him  away 
from  church,  state  and  home,  in  all  of  which 
places  God  is  present  protecting  his  own  in 
some  particular  occupation.  A  father  once 
decided  that  he  would  go  to  see  his  son,  who 
was  a  hermit.  The  devil,  assuming  the  form 
of  a  neighboring  hermit,  met  the  youth  and 
said  to  him:  *  Tomorrow  the  devil  will  come 
to  you  in  the  form  of  your  father  to  persuade 
you  to  desert  this  holy  life.'  Convinced  of 
this,  the  young  man  procured  a  hatchet, 
and  when  his  father  approached,  ran  to  him 
and  killed  him.     Wherefore  I  advise  every 

1154] 


MONKS  AND  MONASTICISM 

one  to  stick  to  his  occupation  and  beware  of 
solitude." 

Luther's  brother  said  that  his  uncle  had 
caught  two  Franciscans  in  a  wolftrap.  Luther 
added:  "  In  truth,  they  are  the  real  wolves!  '* 


155 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


25.  THE  DEVIL. 

"  Satan  often  said  to  me:  '  What  if  your 
doctrine  against  the  pope,  the  mass  and  the 
monks  should  be  false?'  And  he  has  often 
so  pressed  me  that  the  sweat  has  broken  out. 
At  length  I  replied:  *  Go  and  talk  with  God, 
who  has  ordered  us  to  listen  to  this  Christ. 
Christ  must  do  all.'  Therefore  he  who  wishes 
to  be  a  Christian  must  let  Christ  be  re- 
sponsible for  everything." 

"  When  Satan  suggests  that  God  is  not 
gracious  to  me,  it  is  blasphemy,  because  God 
has  commanded  me  to  expect  remission  of 
sins  from  this  Christ;  therefore  he  who  does 
not  do  so  makes  God  a  liar.  But  I  must  say 
to  the  devil :  *  Though  I  am  a  rogue,  never- 
theless Christ  is  good.'  " 

"  Satan  knows  that  we  must  die,  neverthe- 
less he  is  so  furious  against  us  that  he  tries 
constantly,  to  the  best  of  his  ability,  to  kill 
us,  even  as  soon  as  we  are  born." 

"  The  devil  is  as  big  as  the  world,  as  wide 
as  the  world;  he  reaches  from  heaven  to 
hell." 

"  Early  this  morning,"  said  Luther,  "  the 
devil  was  disputing  with  me  about  Zwingli, 
and  I  learned  that  it  is  not  always  well  to 

[156] 


THE  DEVIL 


be  empty,  that  is,  that  one  is  better  able  to 
dispute  with  the  devil  on  a  full  than  on  an 
empty  stomach.  For  example,  a  certain 
bishop  received  a  visit  from  his  sister,  who 
was  tormented  by  anxious  thoughts  about 
her  brother,  who  she  feared  was  damned. 
After  the  bishop  had  tried  without  success 
to  persuade  her  that  her  fears  were  ground- 
less, he  gave  her  plenty  of  good  things  to  eat 
and  drink  for  three  days.  At  the  end  of  this 
period  he  inquired  hovir  she  felt.  She  replied 
that  she  was  quite  happy.  *  Where  are  the 
fears  that  you  had  ? '  —  *  I  have  forgotten 
them.'  Therefore  eat,  drink  and  enjoy 
yourselves!  People  tempted  as  this  woman 
was  should  be  well  fed.  Fornicators,  how- 
ever, ought  to  fast." 

"  I  ought  to  be  so  happy  that  I  should 
keep  well  from  mere  joy  and  be  unable  to 
get  sick  ;  but  Santa  comes  and  disturbs  me, 
if  not  in  his  own  person,  then  in  the  person 
of  Ki.^  or  some  other.  Heaven  and  earth, 
death  and  life,  are  great  things,  but  faith  in 
Christ  is  much  greater." 

"  So  we  see  the  devil  lies  in  wait  for  us  on 
all  sides,  but  we  have  Christ  to  help  us. 
If  we  look  to  him  there  is  no  other  God  in 
heaven  or  on  earth  except  the  Saviour,  but 

*  It  is  not  certain  to  whom  Luther  referred. 

[157] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

if  we  lose  sight  of  him  there  is  no  peace  nor 
comfort.  Wherefore  all  who  are  tempted 
should  place  Christ  before  their  eyes  as  an 
example,  for  he  must  have  been  more  tried 
than  we  are.  I  have  often  wondered  how 
this  could  be  when  he  knew  that  he  was  inno- 
cent, but  the  devil  reproached  him  with 
keeping  company  with  sinners.  .  .  .  Preach- 
ing is  often  a  trial  to  me,  for  I  think:  *  Sup- 
pose you  turn  some  creature  the  wrong  way, 
then  you  are  really  guilty  of  his  damnation.' 
Such  a  fear  has  often  kept  me  in  hell  itself 
until  God  brought  me  back." 

"  Many  demons  are  in  the  woods,  the 
waters,  in  swamps  and  in  deserts,  in  order  to 
hurt  men.  Others,  in  the  dense  clouds,  cause 
tempests,  thunder  and  hail  and  infect  the 
atmosphere.  But  philosophers  and  scien- 
tists ascribe  these  phenomena  to  nature  and 
I  know  not  what  causes." 

"  I  would  rather  be  slain  by  the  devil  than 
by  the  emperor,  for  then  I  should  die  by  a 
great  lord.  But  he  will  get  a  piece  of  me 
that  won't  agree  with  him  very  well.  He  will 
spit  it  up  again  and  then  on  the  last  day,  I, 
in  turn,  will  chew  him  up." 

"  Sancte  Satan,  ora  pro  nobis!  Gracious 
Lord  Devil,  we  have  not  sinned  against  you, 
nor  did  you  make  us  nor  give  us  life;  where- 

[158] 


THE  DEVIL 


fore,  then,  do  you  accuse^  us  so  hard  before 
God,  as  if  you  were  holy  and  the  supreme 
judge  over  God's  true  saints?  Take  your 
staff  in  your  hand  and  go  to  Rome  to  your 
servant,  whose  god  you  are." 

Commenting  on  the  text,  "  Behold,  I  send 
you  forth  as  sheep  in  the  midst  of  wolves,"*^ 
Luther  said:  "  Christ  fights  with  the  devil 
in  a  wonderful  way;  the  devil  has  on  his 
side  extreme  bravery,  great  numbers,  pru- 
dence; Christ  has  weakness,  a  small  number, 
contempt,  simplicity,  and  yet  Christ  con- 
quers. Thus  he  has  willed  that  we  should  be 
sheep,  and  our  adversaries  wolves,  but  how 
unequal  the  contest,  for  one  sheep  to  fight 
with  ten  or  a  hundred  wolves!  He  sent 
twelve  disciples  into  the  world,  twelve 
among  so  many  wolves!  That  seems  to  me 
a  wonderful  war,  an  astounding  battle,  in 
which,  moreover,  the  sheep  are  slain  and  the 
wolves  survive.  But  along  with  their  prey 
they  will  devour  their  death!  Because  God 
alone  does  marvellous  things,  and  he  will 
preserve  his  sheep  in  the  midst  of  wolves 
and  will  destroy  the  jaws  of  the  wolves 
forever.'^ 

Speaking  of  the  Anabaptists,  some  one 
remarked:    "  It  is  remarkable  that  they  are 

^  Job  i  and  ii.  *  Matt,  x,  16. 

11591 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

so  scornful  of  death  and  do  not  fear  it." 
But  the  doctor  said :  "  Yes,  they  do  not 
know  either  sin  or  the  wrath  of  God,  they 
are  so  blinded  by  the  devil.  Wherefore  they 
do  not  suffer,  as  do  the  saved,  who  know  all 
these  things.  For  the  devil  keeps  their  ears 
and  minds  occupied,  so  that  no  matter  what 
one  says,  they  hear  only  what  they  have  in 
mind;  thus  also  the  devil  infatuates  the 
foolish,  so  that  they  hear  nothing  except 
what  is  in  their  own  minds.  When  you  say 
to  a  fool:  'Drink!  This  is  beer! '  he  laughs: 
'  Ah,'  he  says,  *  it  is  nothing! '  Thus  Breiten- 
bach,  Pistoris  and  Agricola  are  clever  enough 
in  the  world's  affairs,  but  here  they  are  com- 
pletely blinded  and  do  not  hear  us,  because 
they  have  a  preconceived  opinion,  and  if  we 
pour  anything  into  their  ears,  they  laugh, 
like  natural  fools.  I  discuss  many  things 
concerning  the  law  which  condemns:  Agri- 
cola  cannot  hear  it;  he  has  other  principles 
in  his  heart.  When  one  says:  *  Avarice 
and  usury  are  contrary  to  God,'  Breitenbach 
laughs  and  makes  fun  of  us,  as  even  the 
Archbishop  of  Lund^  said  to  Melanchthon, 
that  foreign  nations  ridiculed  us  for  thinking 
that  fornication  was  a  sin.     And  if  the  gospel 

^  John  von  Weeze,  Archbishop  of  Lund,  the  envoy  of 
Charles  V  at  the  Congress  of  Frankfort,  1539,  was  a  worldly- 
man. 

(1601 


THE  DEVIL 


had  not  come,  all  Germany  would  be  full  of 
that  sort  of  thing,  as  already  brothels  were 
being  publicly  defended.^  Whence  it  should 
be  evident  that  Satan  has  great  power,  since 
he  is  able  thus  to  blind  and  stultify  men." 

"  The  devil  never  ceases  to  disturb  and 
worry  men  so  that  even  at  night  and  in  their 
sleep  he  vexes  them  with  disquieting  dreams 
and  anxieties  to  such  a  degree  that  the  whole 
body  is  suffused  with  perspiration  from 
mental  anguish.  Furthermore  he  even  leads 
sleeping  people  from  their  beds  to  precipitous 
places,  where,  if  angels  did  not  guard  them, 
they  would  fall  and  perish." 

"Dreams  arise  thus:  the  human  spirit 
cannot  rest,  for  Satan  is  present  when  we 
sleep,  though  angels  also  are  near.  The  devil 
can  torment  me  so  when  I  am  asleep  that  the 
sweat  breaks  out.-  I  do  not  trouble  myself 
about  either  dreams  or  signs.  I  have  the 
Word,  and  that  I  let  suffice.  I  would  not 
wish  to  have  an  angel  come  to  me;  I  would 
not  believe  him  now,  but  the  time  might 
come  in  certain  circumstances,  when  I  might 
pray  for  such  a  thing.     However  I  do  not 

^  Augustine  had  written  that  harlots  were  necessary,  and 
the  Catholic  Church  had  usually  tolerated,  and  sometimes 
licensed  them.     See  The  Open  Court,  April,  1915,  pp.  205ff. 

'On  this  subject,  cf.  American  Journal  of  Psychology,  July 
1913,  pp.  363ff. 

1 161  J 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH   LUTHER 

say  that  dreams  and  other  signs  are  of  any 
significance,  nor  do  I  worry  about  them, 
because  we  have  already  in  Scripture  what  we 
are  supposed  to  have.  Sad  dreams  come 
from  Satan,  since  everything  which  con- 
tributes to  death  and  fear,  murder  and  deceit, 
is  the  devil's  handiwork.  He  has  often 
driven  me  from  prayer,  and  has  poured 
into  me  such  thoughts  that  I  have  run  away. 
The  best  struggles  that  I  have  had  with 
him,  I  have  had  in  my  bed  by  my  Katie's 
side." 

"  The  devil  is  a  bad  spirit,  who  rejoices 
when  others  suffer  and  is  sad  when  they 
prosper.  Men  also  are  bad,  but  there  are  a 
few  (choice  tyrants  and  living  devils)  who 
feel  no  remorse  for  having  done  wrong  nor 
any  grief  at  the  misfortunes  of  others." 
Then  P  said:  "  But  from  whom  has  the  devil 
learned  such  malice?"  Luther  did  not  reply 
to  this,  but  remarked:  "He  will  have  to 
suffer,  however,  an  eternal  penalty."  Then 
Schiefer:  "  There  is  with  us  a  certain  one 
who  is  offended  by  no  article  of  the  creed 
so  much,  as  by  that  according  to  which  God 
will  punish  eternally  the  devil  and  the 
wicked."  Luther  rejoined :  "  Yes,  dear  Doc- 
tor   Schiefer,    that   is    a    great    temptation, 

^Mathesius,  1540. 

[162] 


THE  DEVIL 


concerning  the  eternal  wrath  of  God!  I 
thought  about  it  earnestly  at  one  time;  God 
protect  me,  that  my  mind  never  again  dwells 
on  it,  but  upon  Jesus  Christ,  in  whom  we  see 
the  mercy  of  the  Father." 

"  I  believe  that  the  devil  is  in  parrots, 
monkeys  and  apes,  because  they  are  able  to 
imitate  men  so  well." 

On  that  day  (August  20,  1538),  Spalatin^ 
related  the  tale  of  a  witch's  insolence,  and 
how  a  girl  at  Altenburg  shed  tears  of  blood 
whenever  the  woman  was  present,  for,  even 
if  she  did  not  see  her  nor  know  of  her,  yet  she 
felt  her  presence  and  shed  tears.  Luther 
answered:  "  One  should  hasten  to  put  such 
witches  to  death.  The  jurists  wish  to  have 
too  many  witnesses,  despising  these  plain 
signs.  Recently  I  had  to  deal  with  a  matri- 
monial case,  where  the  wife  wished  to  poison 
her  husband,  so  that  he  vomited  lizards. 
When  she  was  examined  by  torture  she 
answered  nothing,  because  such  witches  are 
dumb;  they  despise  punishment  and  the 
devil  does  not  let  them  speak.  These  facts 
show  plainly  enough  that  an  example  should 
be  made  of  them  to  terrify  others." 

On  August  25  (1538),  they  spoke  much  of 

'  George  Spalatin,  an  old  friend  of  Luther's,  now  pastor  of  a 
church  at  Altenburg  in  Electoral  Saxony. 

[163] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

witches  who  stole  eggs  from  hens  and  milk 
and  butter.  Luther  said:  "  No  mercy  is  to 
be  shown  them.^  I  myself  would  begin  to 
burn  them  according  to  the  law  that  the 
priests  should  begin  to  stone  culprits.  They 
say  that  they  make  the  butter  they  steal 
rancid,  and  that  those  who  eat  it  fall  to  the 
ground,  and  that  the  best  way  to  vex  such 
witches  is  to  put  the  milk  and  butter  on  ice, 
for  then  they  are  reproved  by  Satan  and 
forced  to  go  to  him.  Village  parsons  and 
schoolmasters  of  old  knew  their  arts  and 
plagued  them  well.  But  Bugenhagen's  way^ 
is  the  best,  to  plague  them  with  filth,  stirring 
it  often,  so  that  all  their  things  are  soiled.^' 

^  Such  sayings  as  these  fanned  the  flames  of  the  horrible 
persecution  of  witches  by  which  hundreds  of  thousands  of 
harmless  persons  lost  their  lives  in  the  sixteenth  century. 
Four  witches  were  executed  at  Wittenberg  in  1540. 

^  Bugenhagen,  the  Lutheran  pastor  of  Wittenberg,  defe- 
cated in  the  milk-pans.  This  antidote  to  witchcraft  was 
recommended  by  St.  Francis  of  Assisi  to  his  follower  Rufinus. 


1164] 


WORLD  PREFERS   SATAN 


26.  THE  WORLD  PREFERS  SATAN 
TO  THE  GOSPEL. 

"  God  is  unable  to  rule  the  world,  because 
the  world  is  unwilling  to  be  ruled  by  him, 
but  prefers  Satan,  who  understands  how  to 
manage  people.  But  God  has  this  advantage, 
that  he  knocks  the  world  and  Satan's  king- 
dom in  the  world  to  pieces  and  grinds  them 
to  powder  when  they  behave  too  badly.'' 

"  Merciful  God,  be  gracious  to  me  a  sin- 
ner and  grant  me  pardon  and  burial!  For 
the  world  cannot  bear  with  me  nor  I  with  the 
world." 

"  The  more  one  preaches,  the  madder  the 
world  becomes,  so  that  I  wish  that  I  might 
be  compelled  by  some  occasion  to  desist  from 
preaching  in  order  that  Satan  might  have  a 
freer  opportunity,  and  one  worthy  of  the 
world,  to  preach  his  own  doctrines." 

"  The  world  wishes  to  deceive  or  to  be 
deceived;  therefore  the  world  has  no  business 
with  truth." 

"  The  law  is  what  we  ought  to  do;  the 
gospel  however  is  of  God,  what  God  wishes  to 
give.  The  first  we  are  unable  to  accomplish, 
but  the  second  we  are  able  to  receive,  namely, 
through  faith.     But  see  what  sort  of  beings 

[1651 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

men  are!  For  the  first,  which  they  are 
unable  to  do,  they  want  to  do,  while  the 
second,  which  they  ought  to  accept,  they  are 
unwilling  to  believe." 

"  The  ingratitude  of  the  world  towards 
the  gospel  is  indescribable  and  satanic. 
For  the  ministers  are  assailed,  here  by 
persecution,  there  by  thanklessness,  and 
unless  we  had  a  pious  prince  to  defend  us, 
our  own  people  would  torment  us  more  than 
our  open  enemies.  I  could  not  succeed  at 
present  in  getting  a  single  city  to  maintain, 
by  its  own  aid,  a  preacher.  The  whole  city 
of  Wittenberg  gives  in  support  of  the  precious 
gospel,  for  the  entire  year,  four  pfennigs^ 
for  each  person.  So  it  is  everywhere.  Cities 
which  formerly  feasted  an  unlimited  number 
of  monks,  are  unable  now  to  support  a  single 
preacher.  And  yet  papists  support  monks! 
But  the  scarcity  of  preachers  will  re-estab- 
lish their  authority.  As  they  can  now  be  had 
for  nothing  they  are  not  respected;  when 
carriages  must  be  sent  to  bring  them,  and 
they  take  money  for  their  preaching,  then 
they  will  be  highly  regarded.  I  had  not  sup- 
posed that  the  devil  could  be  so  powerful 
in  the  world,  had  I  not  experienced  it  daily. 
Religion  having  been  driven  away,  it  is 
*  A  pfennig  is  equal  to  about  one-fourth  of  a  cent. 

[166] 


WORLD  PREFERS  SATAN 


superstition  that  has  a  hold  on  the  people, 
not  the  gospel.  The  people  of  the  world  wish 
to  be  deceived  by  hobgoblins,  since  they 
pray  again  to  the  saints,  burn  candles  and 
go  upon  pilgrimages;  likewise  they  must 
have  celibates,  in  other  words,  fornicators. 
For  we  have  lost  influence  with  them  on 
account  of  our  marrying.  If  I  were  younger 
I  should  give  up  preaching.  I  would  rather 
take  up  some  business  and  let  others  preach. 
But  God  will  take  vengeance  upon  this 
ingratitude,  not  by  physical  blows,  but  by 
condemning  them  on  the  last  day  to  ge- 
henna."  After  a  moment  Luther  added: 
"  Hold  fast,  Anthony,^  and  do  not  let  these 
words  frighten  you.  God  will  be  your  recom- 
pense and  reward." 

*  Anthony  Lauterbach. 


1167] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


27.  GOD  AND  HIS  GIFTS. 

"  Our  Lord  God  must  be  a  good  man, 
to  be  fond  of  worthless  fellows.  I  cannot 
like  them,  and  yet  I  am  one  myself." 

"A  philosopher  has  said:  *  God  is  a 
sphere,  whose  center  is  everywhere  and 
whose  circumference  is  nowhere.'  Would 
that  the  fanatics  and  the  nobles  knew  as 
much  about  God  as  this  heathen!  " 

"  As  God  creates  all  things  from  nothing, 
so  he  reduces  all  things  to  nothing.  For 
what  was  Alexander  the  Great .^  Nothing, 
before  he  was  born;  what  is  he  now.?  Noth- 
ing at  all.  God  does  the  same  thing  through 
regeneration.  Before  he  makes  you  a  new 
man,  that  is,  frees  you  from  your  impurity, 
into  which  you  have  come  because  of  the 
weakness  of  your  nature,  it  is  necessary  that 
you  first  become  nothing;  for  God  first  makes 
you  nothing  through  penitence,  then  some- 
thing through  faith." 

"  Would  you  like  to  know  how  God  con- 
tinues ruler  of  the  world?  By  making  the 
old  lame  and  the  young  blind.  Thus  he 
remains  master." 

"  Our  God  does  not  wish  to  be  rich.  He 
might  be  better  off,  if  he  wished,  for  if  he 

[168] 


GOD  AND  HIS  GIFTS 


should  come  to  Ferdinand,^  Duke  George, 
or  to  the  pope,  and  should  say:  'Give  me 
ten  thousand  florins  or  you  will  die  this 
hour,'  they  would  all  reply:  '  Yes,  dear  Lord, 
gladly,  if  only  I  may  live!'  Now  since  he 
does  not  do  that  sort  of  thing,  they  are  not 
grateful  to  him  for  his  gifts.  If  he  bestowed 
his  blessings  more  sparingly,  we  should  be 
more  grateful,  as,  for  example,  if  he  should 
take  away  from  men  their  limbs,  from  this 
one  a  foot,  from  that  one  a  hand,  etc.,  and 
after  some  years  should  give  them  back  to 
some,  but  not  to  others,  the  latter  would, 
without  doubt,  soon  give  thanks  to  God  and 
pray  to  him.  But  God's  gifts  are  boundless. 
He  heaps  upon  us  all  things  at  once  in  the 
greatest  profusion.  He  gives  us  the  liberal 
arts,  and  languages.  The  choicest  books  are 
to  be  had  for  a  song.  But  woe  to  our  sloth! 
For  God  will  close  his  hand  again  and  will 
bring  it  to  pass  that  we  who  now  neglect 
his  true  ministers  will  once  more  pay  rever- 
ence to  preachers  of  falsehood." 

"  God    created    the    sparrows;     therefore 
not  one  of  them  without  his  consent  shall 

^  Ferdinand  I  was  King  of  Bohemia  and  Hungary,  and 
became  emperor  in  1556,  on  the  abdication  of  his  brother, 
Charles  V.  Duke  George,  of  Aibertine  Saxony,  remained 
hostile  to  Luther  until  his  death  in  1539.  Cf.  Smith,  Luthrr, 
p.  221.     Luther  is  speaking  in  1532. 

1169] 


(( 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

fall  to  the  ground.  God  not  only  created 
men,  but  also  gave  his  beloved  son  to  suffer 
for  them;  consequently  he  will  and  must 
care  far  more  for  them  than  for  the  useless 
sparrows.'* 

"  As  a  father  says  to  his  family: '  Eat,  drink 
and  let  me  provide  for  you,  so  long  as  you 
are  zealous  to  do  my  will,'  so  God  does  not 
care  what  you  eat  or  drink  or  how  you  dress, 
but  this  he  requires,  namely,  that  you  con- 
form yourself  to  his  will." 

Observing  his   dog  Tolpel,^   Luther  said: 

Look  at  the  dog!  He  hasn't  a  blemish  on 
his  whole  body;  he  has  fine  bright  eyes, 
strong  legs,  beautiful  white  teeth,  a  good 
stomach,  etc.  These  are  the  highest  bodily 
gifts,  and  God  bestows  them  on  such  an 
unreasoning  animal." 

"  It  is  a  shameful  thing  and  evidently  an 
enchantment  of  the  devil,  that  we  trust 
more  in  human  beings  than  in  God.  For 
example,  I  expect  more  good  from  my 
Katie,  or  from  Professor  Philip  [Melanch- 
thon],  than  from  Christ.  Why  then  should 
I  fear  him?  But,  you  say,  we  are  miserable 
sinners.  To  this  Christ  replies:  *  Because  I 
suffered,  therefore  you  are  baptized  through 
me.'  Consider  also  how  very  pleasantly  he 

*  I.f.f  Clown. 

[1701 


GOD  AND  HIS  GIFTS 


lived  with  his  disciples,  how  patiently  he 
bore  with  their  idiosyncrasies.  Furthermore 
it  is  written  in  Scripture:  *  He  who  believes 
in  him  shall  not  be  afraid.'^  Fie  on  your 
unbelief,  that  we  should  flee  from  Christ, 
although  he  is  gentler  and  kinder  to  us  than 
any  of  our  friends,  brothers  or  parents! 
If  therefore  Christ  seems  to  frighten  any 
one,  he  should  know  that  it  is  not  Christ, 
but  Satan." 

"  The  best  thing  that  theology  can  teach 
us  is  to  know  Christ.  Therefore  Peter  says: 
'  Grow  in  the  knowledge  of  Jesus  Christ, 
for  he  is  most  merciful,  most  just  and  most 
wise.'  "2 

"  Since  our  Lord  God  has  made  this  tran- 
sient kingdom,  the  sky,  the  earth  and  all 
things  in  them,  so  beautiful,  how  much  more 
beautiful  will  he  make  the  eternal  kingdom." 

Looking  up  at  the  sky  one  night  Luther 
said:  "  He  who  has  built  such  a  vault  with- 
out pillars  must  be  a  good  master-work- 
man." 

"  Even  if  Christ  were  only  a  man,  yet  would 
he  be  worthy  of  great  honor,  for  he  deserved 
well  of  us,  doing  much  good  and  no  evil, 
not  to  mention  that  he  is  very  God  and 
Saviour." 
^Ps.  Ivi,  11.  2  2  Peter  Hi,  18. 

[171] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

One  day  when  some  birds  were  building  a 
nest  in  his  garden,  but  always  flew  away  as 
we  walked  by,  he  said:  "Dear  little  birds, 
don't  fly  away!  I  wish  you  well  from  my 
heart,  if  only  you  could  trust  me!  Thus  do 
we  distrust  God,  who  wishes  us  heartily  well. 
He  who  has  given  his  son  for  us  will  not  slay 
us/' 

"  The  wicked  cannot  see  the  glory  of  God; 
indeed  they  cannot  recognize  his  creations 
even  when  present.  Thus  when  God  simply 
overwhelms  the  wicked  and  all  other  men 
with  the  multitude  and  magnitude  of  his 
creatures,  so  that  he  may  bring  back  by 
nature  and  by  his  beneficence  those  who  are 
lost,  they,  on  the  contrary,  only  grow  viler 
by  reason  of  his  benignity  and  care.  What 
can  God  then  do  but  let  them  go  to  hell.^ 
If  any  one  brings  us  turkeys^  or  their  eggs 
we  exclaim  and  almost  die  with  wonder. 
Just  as  he  says:  Consider  the  fowls  of  the 
air  and  the  lilies  of  the  field. ^  The  male  fish 
in  the  water  casts  forth  his  seed  with  a  stroke 
of  his  tail,  and  the  female,  who  is  present, 
immediately  conceives  a  hundred  thousand 
fish.     And  all  the  philosophers  cannot  give 

*  Interesting  as  one  of  the  first  allusions  in  European  litera- 
ture to  the  turkey,  recently  imported  from  America.  Luther 
spoke  in  the  autumn  of  1533. 

*  Matthew  vi,  26fF. 

[172] 


GOD  AND  HIS  GIFTS 


a  reason  for  this,  but  only  Moses,  when  he 
wrote:  *  God  spoke  and  it  was  done;^  In- 
crease and  multiply,^  and  it  was  thus.'  " 

"  Our  Lord  God  and  the  devil  have  two 
different  methods  of  procedure.  Our  Lord 
God  first  terrifies,  then  restores  and  consoles, 
to  the  end  that  the  flesh  may  die,  and  the 
spirit  live.  Thus  also  the  good  angels 
frighten  people  and  afterwards  console  them. 
On  the  other  hand  the  devil  caresses  men  in 
their  sins,  and  afterwards  brings  them  to 
despair;  he  exhilarates  the  flesh  and  saddens 
the  spirit;  for  at  the  time  the  wrong  is  done 
there  is  no  remorse,  but  afterwards  there 
remains  a  sad  and  despairing  conscience.'* 

"  How  wonderful  it  is  that  God  is  so  rich! 
He  gives  enough,  but  we  don't  appreciate  it. 
He  gave  to  Adam  the  whole  world,  but  that 
was  nothing;  what  he  cared  about  was  a 
single  tree,  and  so  he  must  ask  why  God 
had  forbidden  it  to  him.  It  is  the  same  to- 
day. God  has  given  us  enough  to  learn  in 
his  revealed  Word,  but  we  leave  that  and 
seek  after  his  hidden  will,  which  however, 
we  are  unable  to  learn.  Therefore  it  is 
no  more  than  right  if  in  acting  thus  we  are 
utterly  ruined." 

"  Three  very  useful  instruments  of  singu- 

^  Genesis,  i,  3ff.  ^  QgnesJs^  i^  22ff. 

1173] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

lar  benefit  have  been  given  to  man:  the 
magnet,  the  clock  and  fire.  I  cannot  admire 
and  extol  sufficiently  the  steel  and  stone 
as  generators  of  fire,  and  I  wish  that  some  one 
would  publicly  commend  the  magnet,  which 
loves  iron  as  a  husband  his  spouse." 


[1741 


THE   BIBLE 


28.  THE  BIBLE. 

"  There  are  two  things  in  the  world  which 
Christians  ought  to  attend  to:  the  word  of 
God  and  the  work  of  God." 

"  That  the  Bible  is  the  word  of  God  and 
not  of  man,  that  it  is  God's  book  and  not 
man's,  is  proved  by  the  fact  that  all  things 
in  the  world,  what  they  are  and  how  they  are 
conditioned,  are  described  in  the  book  of 
Genesis  by  Moses,  and  everything  remains 
exactly  as  God  created  it.  Moreover,  Julius 
Caesar,  Augustus,  Alexander,  the  kingdoms 
of  the  Egyptians,  Babylonians,  Persians, 
Greeks  and  Romans  have  passed  away,  and 
though  they  all  wished  to  blot  out  and  destroy 
this  book,  and  eagerly  sought  to  do  so,  yet 
they  did  not  succeed;  the  book  remained 
unharmed  in  spite  of  them  all.  Who  sus- 
tains it,  or  who  could  have  preserved  it 
against  so  great  might  and  power?  Homer 
and  Vergil  are  old  books,  but  not  as  com- 
pared with  the  Bible.  Likewise  baptism, 
the  sacrament  of  the  Lord's  supper,  and  the 
ministry,  that  is,  the  whole  worship  enjoined 
by  the  First  Commandment,  have  remained 
in  spite  of  so  many  tyrants  and  heretics. 
Our    Lord    God    has    sustained    them    with 

[175] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

peculiar  and  wonderful  power,  because 
preaching,  baptism  and  the  communion  are 
so  necessary  that  no  one  is  able  to  oppose 
them." 

"  The  litany  of  litanies  is  the  Lord's 
prayer.  The  learning  of  the  learned  is  the 
decalogue.  The  virtue  of  the  virtuous  is 
the  creed.  For  as  the  Lord's  prayer  excel- 
lently and  beautifully  asks  and  demands, 
thus  the  decalogue  excellently,  fully  and 
beautifully  teaches  and  exhorts,  and  the 
creed  fully,  excellently  and  beautifully 
operates  and  exercises  all.  Thus  these  three 
make  a  man  perfect  and  absolute  in  thought, 
word  and  deed;  that  is,  they  nourish  and 
bring  to  the  highest  perfection  his  mind, 
tongue  and  body." 

"  The  New  Testament  throws  light  upon 
the  Old  as  the  day  lights  up  the  night. 
Since  the  Jews  neither  believe  nor  accept  it, 
it  is  impossible  for  them  to  understand  the 
prophecies,  except  as  histories." 

"  Money  is  the  devil's  Word,  by  which  he 
creates  everything  in  the  world,  as  God 
creates  all  things  by  the  true  Word." 

"  Judith  seems  to  me  to  be  a  tragedy, 
wherein  is  described  the  end  of  tyrants, 
while  Tobias  seems  like  a  comedy,  which 
speaks   much  of  women;    the  former  illus- 

11761 


THE  BIBLE 


/: 


trates  the  conduct  of  state  affairs,  the 
latter  is  an  example  of  household  manage- 
ment." 

"  One  must  hold  fast  to  the  Word,  so  that  \  j 
if  I  should  behold  all  the  angels  and  hear  W 
them  telling  me  not  to  believe  some  verse  of  1/ 
Scripture,  not  only  ought  I  not  to  be  moved  I 
by  them,  but  I  ought  to  close  my  eyes  and  [I 
ears,  for  they  would  be  unworthy  of  being  / 
looked  upon  or  listened  to."    .. 

"  I  would  give  the  world  to  have  the  stories 
of  the  antediluvian  patriarchs  also,  that  we 
might  see  how  they  lived,  preached  and 
suffered.  ...  I  have  taught  and  suffered 
too,  but  only  fifteen,  twenty  or  thirty  years; 
they  lived  seven  or  eight  hundred  years  and 
how  they  must  have  suffered!  " 

"  The  ingratitude  and  vanity  of  the  world 
are  inexpressible.  Before  the  New  Testa- 
ment^ was  translated,  everyone  was  eager  to 
have  it  done  so  that  he  could  read  it,  and 
when  it  was  done  it  was  only  four  weeks 
before  all  were  clamoring  for  a  translation 
of  the  Old  Testament.  That^  lasted  four 
weeks  when  the  cry  arose  for  the  Psaltery,^ 
which  lasted  another  four  weeks.     The  trans- 

*  Luther's  translation  of  the  New  Testament  appeared  in 
1522. 
'Luther  means  the  Pentateuch,  which  appeared  in  1523. 
'This  appeared  in  1524. 

[177] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

lation  of  Ecclesiasticus,^  which  Is  giving  me 
much  trouble,  will  do  for  another  four  weeks, 
and  then  the  people  will  keep  on  demanding 
something  new,  until  they  fall  into  some 
error." 

"  He  who  will  become  a  theologian  now  has 
a  great  advantage  in  having  the  German  Bible. 
That  is  so  clear  that  he  can  read  it  without 
any  hindrance.  Then  let  him  read  Melanch- 
thon's  Commonplaces  industriously  and  thor- 
oughly until  he  has  mastered  it.  When  he 
has  read  these  two  books  he  will  be  a  theolo- 
gian whom  neither  the  devil  nor  any  heretic 
can  shake,  and  all  divinity  lies  open  to  him 
to  read  what  he  likes  with  edification.  If 
he  cares  to  he  can  read  my  commentaries  on 
Romans,  Galatians  and  Deuteronomy,  which 
will  give  him  eloquence  and  a  copious  vocabu- 
lary. But  you  will  find  no  book  under  the 
sun  in  which  the  whole  of  theology  is  so  well 
summed  up  as  in  the  Commonplaces.  Read 
all  the  fathers  and  commentators  on  the 
Canon  Law — they  are  nothing!  There  is 
no  better  book  than  this  of  Melanchthon's 
except  Scripture.  He  is  more  concise  than 
I;  he  argues  and  instructs;  I  am  garrulous 
and  rhetorical.     If  people  follow  my  advice 

*  Luther  was  working  at  Ecclesiastlcus  at  the  time  of  this 
saying,  1532. 

1178] 


THE   BIBLE 


they  will  only  print  my  doctrinal  books, 
though  indeed  they  may  read  the  others  for 
history  to  see  how  things  went,  for  at  first 
it  was  not  so  easy  as  it  now  is.'' 

/^      "  I  should  prefer  all  my  books  to  perish 

that  only  the  Bible  might  be  read,  for  other       f^^'U 

books  take  up  our  attention  and  make  us 

neglect  the  Bible.     Even  Brenz  made  such 

a  commentary  on  twelve  chapters  of  Luke 

that  it  irks  the  reader  to  look  at  the  text. 

Such  also  is  my  commentary  on  Galatians. 

I  am  surprised  that  any  one  should  try  to 

improve  on  those  eloquent  writings.     Who 

would  buy  such  volumes  t     Even  if  he  bought 

them  who  would   read   them.^     Even  if  he 

read  them  who  would  profit  by  them?  " 

y^:  "  How  does  it  happen  that  we  do  not 
believe  the  Word  of  God,  in  spite  of  the  fact 
that  everything  has  happened  as  is  written  1 1  ^^ 
in  the  Scriptures,  even  to  the  article  on  the 
resurrection  of  the  dead.^  It  is  because  of 
original  sin." 

"  The  sacred  Scripture  does  not  deal  with 
gross  sinners,  such  as  publicans  and  harlots, 
for  their  sins  even  the  heathen  can  judge, 
but  with  those  spiritual  immoralities  which 
before  the  world  have  the  name  of  respecta- 
bility and  honesty." 

"  John  in  his  gospel  represents  Christ  as 
[1791 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

being  God,  reasoning  a  priori^  from  the  cause 
to  the  effect;  Paul  reaches  the  same  conclu- 
sion a  posteriori,  from  the  effect  to  the  cause. 
John  says:  *  In  the  beginning  was  the 
Word/^  also,  '  It  is  my  father  that  honoreth 
me;  of  whom  ye  say  that  he  is  your  God.'^ 
Paul,  however,  says:  *  They  tempted  Christ 
in  the  desert;  therefore  Christ  is  God;'^ 
and  in  Acts  xx:  *  Take  heed  therefore  unto 
yourselves,  etc'  "^ 
A  "  The  life  of  Christ  should  be  considered 
from  three  points  of  view:    first  as  history, 

•'^'  second  as  a  gift,  third  as  an  example  and 

inspiration.        History    presents    the    most 
powerful  examples  of  faith  and  infidelity." 

"  Christ  seems  to  have  been  called  Naza- 
rene^  from  the  Hebrew  word^  meaning  elect, 
set  apart,  sanctified,  consecrated  with  a  new 
crown.*' 

"  The  reader  of  the  Scriptures  should  be  a 
'y    humble   person,   who   shows    reverence   and 
fear  towards  the  Word  of  God,  who  con- 
stantly says:  *Teach  me,  teach  me,  teach  me.' 
,,  The  Spirit  resists  the  proud;    even  though 

^^'^^^         they  are  zealous  and  preach  Christ  for  a  time 
without  fault,  nevertheless,  if  they  are  proud, 

1  John  i,  1.  <  Acts  xx,  28. 

=»John  viii,  54.  ^  Matthew  ii,  23. 

'Hebrews  iii,  1-11.  •Numbers  vi. 

fl801 


THE  BIBLE 


God  excludes  them  from  the  Church.  Where- 
fore every  proud  person  is  a  heretic,  if  not  de 
/"^r/o, nevertheless,  potentially.  Itis, however, 
difficult  for  him  who  is  richly  endowed  with 
talents  not  to  be  arrogant.  But  those  whom 
God  has  adorned  with  great  gifts  he  leads 
into  most  severe  temptations,  that  they  may 
see  how  helpless  they  are.  )  Paul  bore  a 
thorn  in  the  flesh,^  lest  he  become  proud, 
and  unless  Philip^  were  thus  afflicted  he 
would  have  wonderful  opinions.  If  James^ 
and  Agricola*  should  become  proud  and 
despise  their  teachers  I  fear  that  there  would 
be  no  getting  on  with  them.  I  know  the 
insolence  [of  Munzer,  Zwingli  and  Carlstadtf 
Pride  drove  the  angel  from  heaven,  and  it] 
spoils  many  a  preacher.  Therefore  it  is 
humility  that  we  need  in  the  study  of  sacred 
literature." 

"  The  Hebrew  tongue  is  altogether  de- 
spised because  of  impiety  or,  perhaps,  be- 
cause people  despair  of  learning  it.  .  .  . 
Without  this  language  there  can  be  no  under- 
standing of  Scripture,  for  the  New  Testa- 
ment, although  written  in  Greek,  is  full  of 

*  2  Cor.  lii,  7. 

■  Melanchthon,  a  sickly  person. 

*  Schenk,  accused  of  antinomianlsm. 

*  John  Agricola,  1494-1566,  an  antinomian.     Smith,  Luther, 
282ff. 

11811 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

Hebraisms.  It  is  rightly  said  that  the  He- 
brews drink  from  the  fountains,  the  Greeks 
from  the  streams  and  the  Latins  from  the 
pools.  I  am  no  Hebrew  grammarian,  nor 
do  I  wish  to  be,  for  I  cannot  bear  to  be  ham- 
pered by  rules;  but  I  am  quite  at  ease  in  the 
language,  for  whoever  has  the  gift  of  tongues, 
even  though  he  cannot  forthwith  turn  any- 
thing into  another  language,  or  interpret 
it,  yet  has  a  wonderful  gift  of  God.  The 
translators  of  the  Septuagint  were  unskilled 
in  Hebrew,  and  their  version  is  therefore 
extremely  poor,  even  though  literal.  We 
prefer  to  it  the  version  of  Jerome,  even  though 
we  confess  that  he  who  reviled  Jerome  as  a 
good  Jew,  was  mistaken  and  did  him  wrong. 
But  he  has  this  excuse  that  after  the  Baby- 
lonian captivity  the  language  was  so  cor- 
rupted that  it  could  not  be  restored." 

When  he  was  correcting  his  version  of  II 
Maccabees  he  said:  "  I  am  so  hostile  to  this 
book  and  to  Esther  that  I  wish  they  did  not 
exist;  they  have  too  much  Jewish  and 
heathen  nonsense." 

"  Genesis  is  a  charming  book  and  has 
wonderful  stories  I  I  cannot  understand  it  all, 
however.  I  shall  need  to  have  been  dead 
several  years  before  I  shall  thoroughly  under- 
stand   the    meaning    of    creation    and    the 

[182] 


THE   BIBLE 


omnipotence  of  God.  For  we  cannot  grasp 
it  and  must  be  content  to  leave  it,  like  that 
judge  who  prayed:  *  I  believe  on  God  Al- 
mighty/ He  thought  that  that  was  God's 
name;  like  the  nun  who  called  Christ 
'  Master  Scimus  '  and  '  Master  Clic.'^  For 
no  one  can  study  out  the  meaning  of  that 
word  creation,  though  even  the  heathen  have 
this  thought:  There  must  be  a  first  cause, 
which  makes  and  governs  all  things." 

Asked  whether  it  was  the  same  woman  who 
anointed  the  Lord  in  the  house  of  Lazarus 
and  in  that  of  Simon,  Luther  replied:  "Oh, 
it  is  certain  that  it  was  the  same  one;  it 
is  immaterial  that  in  one  place  it  is  written 
that  Judas  murmured,^  while  in  another^ 
this  is  omitted.  There  is  also  this  difference: 
he  complained  from  malice,  the  others  from 
simplicity.  But  here  is  a  knotty  point  that 
I  would  like  to  have  cleared  up,  whether  the 
woman  mentioned  in  Luke  vii,^  from  whom 
Christ  drove  the  devils  is  the  same  as  the 
one  who  is  called  a  sinner.^  She  was,  how- 
ever, not  a  prostitute,  for  the  Jews  did  not 

*  There  are  two  prayers  in  the  Catholic  ritual,  one  of  which 
begins  "  Magister  Scimus  "  (Lord,  we  know),  the  other 
"  Magister  die "  (Master,  speak).  The  nun  misread  the 
latter  "  Magister  clic." 

'  John  lii,  5.  *  Luke  viii,  2. 

*  Matt,  xxvi,  6.  •  Luke  vii,  37,  39. 

1183  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

have  prostitutes;  but  she  is  called  a  sinner 
because  she  had  been  possessed  of  devils, 
since  the  Jews  called  all  obsessed  persons 
sinners;  though  any  one  who  was  under  a 
penalty  w^as  also  called  a  sinner.  Perhaps 
it  was  some  light-hearted  wench,  a  bit  indis- 
creet in  her  talk.'*  —  "  Verily,  I  say  unto  you, 
wheresoever  this  gospel  shall  be  preached 
mention  shall  be  made  of  that  woman. "^ 
When  asked  why  Christ  added  this,  he  re- 
plied: "That  it  might  be  seen  that  he 
greatly  valued  works  of  mercy,  especially 
when  done  to  help  a  human  being  who  lies 
on  the  death  bed.  In  the  second  place  it  is 
an  allegory.  For  Judas  overthrows  all  that 
is  good  and  promotes  all  that  is  bad.  That  is 
the  way  of  the  devil  and  the  world;  they 
praise  what  ought  to  be  condemned  and  con- 
demn what  ought  to  be  praised.  Thus  the 
devil  is  merciful  where  he  ought  to  harden 
his  heart;  he  is  hard  where  he  ought  to 
be  merciful.  The  world  punishes  where  it 
ought  not  to  punish,  and  is  lax  where  it 
ought  to  be  strict." 

Luther  said:  "  Paul  does  not  use  such 
big  words  as  Demosthenes,  but  he  speaks 
properly  and  uses  significant  words.  He  did 
right  in  not  being  very  involved  or  preten- 

*  Matt,  xxvi,  13;  Mark  xiv,  9. 

1184] 


THE   BIBLE 


tious,   else  every  one  would   want   to   talk 
that  way." 

Luther  asked  Jonas  about  a  passage  In 
Genesis,^  and  how  it  was  credible  that  when 
Sarah  was  ninety  years  old  she  should  have 
been  taken  by  King  Abimelech.  Jonas 
answered  that  ninety  years  at  that  time  was 
as  twenty  with  us.  "  No,"  answered  the 
doctor,  *'  for  Abraham  was  nearer  the  time 
of  David  than  the  time  of  Adam,  and  in 
David's  time  the  years  of  a  man's  life  were 
said  to  be  seventy  or  eighty.  The  spring  of  /  /  i 
the  world  was  before  the  flood.  After  that  j  I  ■ 
its  flower  faded.  In  short,  the  Scri] 
an  inscrutable  book.  One  can  never 
it." 


•ipture  '^sl J  / 
r  fathomj  i  f 


"  *  They  pierced  my  hands  and  my  feet.'  - 
The  Jews  simply  laugh  at  this  text  about  the 
crucifixion  of  Christ;  indeed,  they  say  that 
he  was  not  crucified,  because  neither  Moses 
nor  the  prophets  indicate  that  this  method 

^  Genesis  xx,  2  and  xviii,  llf. 

2  Psalm  xxii,  17,  Greek,  Latin  and  English  revised  versions. 
This  remarkable  verse,  occurring  in  a  Psalm  which  strongly 
colored  the  Gospel  narratives  of  the  passion,  has  been  quoted 
as  a  prophecy  of  the  crucifixion  by  Irenaeus,  Justin  Martyr, 
Augustine,  Calvin,  Bossuet  and  a  host  of  others.  R.  Kittel 
{Die  Psalmen,  1914,  pp.  84flF,  92)  shows  that  the  verse  really 
does  refer  to  crucifixion,  which  was  practiced  by  the  Persians, 
from  whom  it  was  borrowed  by  the  Carthaginians  and  Ro- 
mans. Psalm  xxii,  is  supposed  to  have  originated  in  the  period 
of  Jewish  subjection  to  the  Persians. 

1 185  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

of  execution  was  used  by  the  Jews,  but  only 
stoning  and  burning.  I  answer  them  that 
the  Romans  put  to  death  not  according  to  the 
laws  of  the  Jews,  but  according  to  those  of 
the  Gentiles.  For  to-day  In  Syria  men  are 
hung,  as  In  Hungary  they  are  Impaled. 
Therefore  the  argument  of  the  Jews  that 
Christ  was  not  crucified,  because  they  do 
not  read  In  Moses  of  this  species  of  torment, 
is  invalid.  Moses  does.  Indeed,  speak  of 
hanging  on  a  tree,^  but  not  of  piercing  the 
hands  and  feet." 

*  Deuteronomy  xxi,  23. 


186] 


^ 


PREACHERS  AND  PREACHING 


29.  PREACHERS  AND  PREACHING. 

"  He  who  has  but  a  single  word  of  Scrip- 
ture and  is  unable  to  make  from  it  an  entire 
sermon,  ought  never  to  be  a  preacher." 

"  Sermons  should  be  adapted  to  the  occa- 
sion and  to  the  audience.  For  example, 
a  certain  preacher  declared  that  it  was  wicked 
for  a  wife  to  obtain  a  wet-nurse  for  her  child, 
and  devoted  his  whole  sermon  to  this,  though 
he  had  in  his  parish  only  a  lot  of  poor  spin- 
sters, to  whom  the  admonition  did  not  apply. 
A  similar  case  was  that  of  the  preacher  who, 
in  an  old  ladies'  home  among  old  wives, 
spoke  in  praise  of  matrimony  and  admonished 
his  hearers  to  get  married." 

"  A  preacher  should  be  skilled  in  both 
logic  and  oratory,  that  is,  it  is  necessary  for  , 

him  both  to  teach  and  to  exhort.    And  when  ^ 

he  is  about  to  treat  a  subject,  he  should  first  ^jj^-- 
set  it  forth,  then  define  it;  third,  adduce 
passages  of  Scripture  in  support  of  it;  fourth, 
illustrate  it  with  examples  from  the  Bible  or 
elsewhere,  fifth,  adorn  it  with  parables; 
sixth,  administer  reproof  to  the  wicked,  the 
disobedient,  the  slothful,  and  others." 

"  I  know  no  better  tonic  for  me  than  anger. 
If  I  wish  to  write,  pray,  or  preach  well,  then 

1187] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

I  need  to  become  angry;  thus  all  my  being 
is  refreshed,  my  wits  are  sharpened,  and  all 
temptations  flee." 

"  To  preach  Christ  is  a  hard  task  and  one 

fraught    with    the    greatest    danger.     If    I 

had  known  this  in  time  I  should  never  have 

become  a  preacher,  but  should  have  said  with 

Moses:     *  Send    whom    thou    wilt    send.'* 

No  one  could  have  induced  me  to  undertake 

it.     Therefore   the   Bishop   of  Brandenburg 

said  to  me  with  truth:   *  Doctor,  I  have  told 

you  that  you  should  keep  still;   you  will  get 

into  trouble,  for  it  is  a  matter  that  touches 

the  Holy  Christian  Church.'^     I  have  indeed 

gotten  into  trouble,  for  I  who  once  enjoyed 

the  greatest  freedom  from  care,  have  kindled 

against  myself  hatred  throughout  the  world." 

//     "  To  me  a  long  sermon  is  an  abomination, 

for  the  desire  of  the  audience  to  listen  is 

4^w}        destroyed,    and    the   preacher   only   defeats 

'  himself.     On  this  account  I  took  Dr.  Bugen- 

hagen    severely    to    task,    for    although    he 

preaches    long    sermons    with    spontaneity 

and  pleasure,  nevertheless  it  is  a  mistake." 

When  Katie  said  she  could  understand  her 

minister    Polner's     preaching    better    than 

Bugenhagen's  because  the  latter  wandered 

» Ex.  iv,  13. 

'In  1518.     See  Smith,  Luther's  Correspondence ^  i,  pp.  73f, 
87f. 

[1881 


PREACHERS  AND  PREACHING 

too  far  from  his  text,  Luther  remarked: 
"Bugenhagen  preaches  as  you  women  usually 
talk;  he  says  whatever  occurs  to  him.  Jonas 
used  to  say,  *  Don't  hail  every  soldier  you 
meet.'  That  is  right.  Bugenhagen  often 
takes  along  everyone  whom  he  meets  with 
him.  He  is  foolish  to  try  to  say  all  that  occurs 
to  him./'  Let  him  take  care  to  keep  to  the 
text  and  attend  to  what  is  before  him  and  aA^ 
make  people  understand  that.  Those  preach-  r 
ers  who  say  whatever  comes  into  their  ^^'"^ 
mouths  remind  me  of  a  maid  going  to  market. 
When  she  meets  another  maid  she  stoics  and 
chats  a  while,  then  she  meets  another  and 
talks  with  her,  too,  and  then  a  third  and  a 
fourth,  and  so  gets  to  market  very  slowly. 
So  with  preachers  who  wander  off  the  text; 
they  would  like  to  say  everything  at  one 
time,  but  they  can't."  » 

"  A  preacher  should  have  the  following 
qualifications:  L  AbiUty  to  teach.  2.  A 
good  mind.  3.  Eloquence.  4.  A  good  voice. 
5.  A  good  memory.     6.  Power  to  leave  off.  . 

7.  Diligence.  8.  Wholesouled  devotion  to 
his  calling.  9.  Willingness  to  be  bothered  by  ^  h' 
everyone.  10.  Patience  to  bear  all  things. 
In  ministers  nothing  is  seen  more  easily  or 
more  quickly  than  their  faults.  A  preacher 
may  have  a  hundred  virtues,  yet  they  may  all 

11891 


) 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

be  obscured  by  a  single  defect,!  the  world  is  now 
so  bad.  Dr.  Jonas  has  all  the  attributes  of  a 
good  preacher,  but  people  cannot  forgive  the 
good  man  for  hawking  and  spitting  so  often.'*  ^ 

"  As  the  world  would  have  him,  six  things 
are  necessary  to  a  preacher:  1.  He  must  have 
a  fine  pronunciation.  2.  He  must  be  learned. 
3.  He  must  be  eloquent.  4.  He  must  be  a 
handsome  person,  whom  the  girls  and  the 
young  ladies  will  like.  5.  He  must  take  no 
money,  but  have  money  to  give.  6.  He  must 
tell  people  what  they  like  to  hear."^  />^ 

When  mention  was  made  of  the  opposi- 
tion which  ministers  of  the  Word  suffer 
from  some  of  those  learned  in  the  law,  he 
said:  *'  Preachers  ought  to  suffer  and  must 
do  so.  That  has  been  the  case  since  the 
beginning  of  the  world,  for  they  have  reviled 
even  thee  " —  pointing  with  his  finger  to  a 
picture  of  Christ  hanging  near  the  table  — 
**and  yet  thou  remainest  forever  the  greatest 
preacher,  while  they  are  utterly  destroyed; 
thus  we  preachers  also  survive,  while  they 
are  all  ruined.  They  are  kings  of  this  world 
only,  but  thou,  Lord  Christ,  art  king  and 
priest  forever.  It  is  a  dreadful  thing,  that 
people   should   have  so  great  a   dislike  for 

1  This  was  said  in  1542,  while  the  preceding  saying  belongs 
to  the  year  1532. 

1190] 


/ 


PREACHERS  AND  PREACHING 

that  which  they  cannot  get  along  without; 
for  they  must  have  some  one  to  preach  the 
Word,  through  which  God  exerts  his  power 
and  accomplishes  his  ends:  He  does  nothing 
except  through  the  Word  as  preached  in  the 
church.  The  devil  hates  not  only  the 
pious  priests,  but  also  the  bad  ones,  for  he  is 
afraid  that  they  may  become  devout  and 
do  him  harm.  Yet  he  is  not  so  much  afraid 
of  the  priests  as  he  is  of  the  Word  and  the 
sacraments,  for  it  is  these  that  do  him  harm. 
But  of  course  there  would  be  no  sacraments, 
if  there  were  no  priests.  But  since  there  are 
priests  still,  he  must  be  on  his  guard  against 
them.  It  is  for  this  reason  that  he  hates  the 
preachers  so  and  pursues  them,  wherever  he 
can." 

**  When  you  are  going  to  preach,  first 
pray  and  say:  *  Dear  Lord,  I  would  preach 
for  thy  honor;  though  I  can  do  nothing  good 
of  myself,  do  thou  make  it  good.'  Don't 
think  about  Melanchthon  or  Bugenhagen 
or  me  or  any  learned  man,  and  don't  try  to 
be  learned  in  the  pulpit.  I  have  never  been 
troubled  because  I  could  not  preach  well,  but 
I  am  overawed  to  think  that  I  have  to  preach 
before  God's  face  and  speak  of  his  infinite 
majesty  and  divine  being.  Therefore  be 
strong  and  pray." 


// 


[1911 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

"  A  preacher  can  get  no  more  effective 
text  than  the  first  commandment:  *  I  am 
the  Lord  thy  God.'  With  it  he  can  preach 
hell-fire  to  the  froward  and  heavenly  peace 
to  the  pious,  punish  the  bad  and  comfort  the 
good  alike.  My  friend  Forster  says  that  he 
is  moved  by  only  three  preachers,  by  me, 
by  Cordatus  and  by  Rorer,  and  that  our 
gifts  are  supplementary,  so  that  where  one 
fails  the  other  succeeds,  just  as  different 
knives  are  adapted  to  different  purposes." 

"  It  used  to  be  thought  womanish  or 
childish  to  mention  Christ  in  the  pulpit. 
Scotus,  Bonaventura,  Occam,  Aristotle  and 
Plato  reigned  there." 

"  Who  know  their  subject  can  speak 
easily,  for  art  follows  comprehension  of  the 
subject.  I  can  never  compose  a  sermon  by 
the  rules  of  rhetoric." 

Turning  to  George  Major  Luther  warned 
him  against  timidity,  and  not  to  preach  to 
those  who  were  wiser  than  himself  but  to 
instruct  the  common  people.  "  A  preacher 
should  bare  his  breast  and  give  the  simple 
folk  milk,  for  every  day  a  new  need  of  first 
principles  arises.  One  should  be  diligent 
with  the  catechism  and  serve  out  only  milk, 
leaving  the  strong  wine  of  high  thoughts  for 
private   discussion   with   the   wise.     In    my 

[  192  1 


PREACHERS  AND  PREACHING 

sermons  I  do  not  think  of  Bugenhagen, 
Jonas  and  Melanchthon,  for  they  know  as 
much  as  I  do,  so  I  preach  not  to  them  but  to 
my  little  Lena  and  Hans  and  Elsa.  It 
would  be  a  foolish  gardener  who  would  at- 
tend to  one  flower  to  the  neglect  of  the  great 
majority." 

When  Erasmus  Alber  was  about  to  take 
his  departure  for  the  Mark,^  he  asked  Doctor 
Martin  how  he  should  preach  in  the  presence 
of  the  prince.  Luther  replied:  "Let  all 
your  sermons  be  very  plain  and  simple. 
Think  not  of  the  prince,  but  of  the  unculti- 
vated and  ignorant  people.  The  prince 
himself  is  made  of  the  same  stufl"  as  they! 
If  in  my  preaching  I  should  address  myself 
to  Philip  I  should  do  no  good.  I  preach 
very  simply  to  the  uneducated  and  it  suits 
everybody.  Though  I  know  Greek,  Hebrew 
and  Latin,  these  languages  I  keep  for  use 
among  ourselves,  and  then  we  get  them  so 
twisted  that  our  Lord  God  is  amazed.'^ 

"  Every  priest  must  have  his  private 
sacrifices.  Therefore  Bugenhagen-  sacrifices 
his  auditors  with  his  long  sermons,  for  we 
are  his  victims.     He  did  it  finely  today."' 

*  In  1537.     He  had  been  appointed  court  preacher  to  the 
Margrave  of  Brandenburg. 

'The  parish  priest  at  Wittenberg.  'January  26.  1533. 

[193  1 


X 


y 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

"  Love  of  glory  does  the  mischief.  Zwingli 
was  so  very  eager  for  glory  that  he  wrote 
that  he  had  learned  nothing  from  me.  I 
have  no  desire  to  show  that  he  got  any  part 
of  his  teaching  from  me,  for  it  has  not  pros- 
pered. Thus  CEcolampadius  thought  him- 
self so  wise  that  he  could  learn  nothing  from 
me  —  he  even  thought  he  excelled  me. 
Likewise  Carlstadt  says:  *  It  is  nothing  to 
me  what  you  think.'  And  Miinzer  preached 
against  two  popes,  a  new  one  and  an  old  one, 
and  he  compared  me  to  Saul,  saying  that  I 
began  well,  but  adding  that  the  spirit  of  God 
had  departed  from  me.  I  pitied  CEcolampa- 
dius, and  yet  I  wondered  how  it  was  possible 
for  a  man  of  good  heart  to  vomit  forth  against 
me  such  bitter  things.  Therefore  let  all 
preachers  beware  of  seeking  glory  in  sacred 
literature,  for  otherwise  they  are  lost.  Leave 
glory  to  Vergil  and  Cicero!  Scripture  de- 
sires humility  and  a  contrite  heart,  therein 
dwells  the  Holy  Spirit." 

"  He  who  wishes  to  rule  the  world  by  the 
Gospel  should  become  a  fool.  God  must  put 
blinders  on  preachers,  as  we  do  on  horses, 
when  he  wishes  to  send  them  against  Satan 
and  the  world.  For  what  equality  is  there 
between  Satan  and  man?  Compare  Peter 
and  Rome:   Peter  a  fisherman  of  Bethsaida, 

[194] 


^ 


PREACHERS  AND  PREACHING 

Rome  the  meeting-place  of  the  wisest  men; 
and  this  dear  Peter  was  to  reform!  Who 
wouldn't  laugh  at  that?  " 

"  It  is  best  not  to  preach  long  sermons,  and 
to  speak  simply  and  like  a  child,}  for  one 
must  preach  only  to  little  Hans  and  little 
Martin  and  the  young.  To  undertake  to 
preach  to  the  doctor^  and  Philip  Is  wrong, 
although  I  understand  very  well  that  they 
think,  since  I  am  there,  they  must  also  be 
learned.  Ah  no!^  Preaching  is  meant  for 
the  children!  In  the  school  one  may  be 
learned." 

"  Christ  had  an  extremely  simple  way  of 
talking,  and  still  he  was  eloquence  itself. 
The  prophets,  to  be  sure,  are  not  very  rhetori- 
cal, but  they  are  much  more  difRcult.  There- 
fore simple  speech  is  the  best  and  truest 
eloquence." 

"When  M6rlin,2Medler^or  Jacob^preaches, 
it  is  just  as  when  the  plug  is  drawn  from  a 
full  cask;  the  liquid  runs  out  as  long  as  there 
is  any  left  within.  But  such  volubility  of 
tongue  doesn't  really  lay  hold  of  the  audience, 
though  It  delights  some,  nor  is  It  even  in- 

*  /.  e.  Luther. 

*  Joachim  M(5rlln,  deacon  at  Wittenberg. 

'  Nicholas  Medler,  at  this  time  Superintendent  at  Naum- 
burg. 

*  Text:  Magister  Jacob.    Who  he  was  is  not  clear. 

11951 


t^^ 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

structive.     It  is  better  to  speak  distinctly, 
so  that  what  is  said  may  be  comprehended."// 

"  A  bee  is  a  small  animal  which  makes 
sweet  honey,  but  which  nevertheless  can 
sting.  So  a  preacher  has  the  sweetest  con- 
solations,  yet  when  aroused  to  anger  he  can 
say  biting  and  stinging  things." 


11961 


WYCLIF  AND  HUSS 


30.  WYCLIF  AND  HUSS. 

"  Wycllf  and  Huss  fought  merely  against 
the  pope's  manner  of  life,  therefore  they  did 
not  succeed,  since  they  themselves  were 
sinners  like  the  papists.  But  I  attacked 
his  doctrine;  thereby  have  I  beaten  him, 
since  the  most  important  thing  is  not  how  we 
live,  but  what  we  believe  and  teach." 

"  The  blood  of  Huss  condemns  the  papist 
today.  For  he  was  a  learned  man,  as 
appears  from  his  pamphlet  on  the  church,^ 
and  I  love  him.  He  died  not  like  the  Ana- 
baptists but  like  Christ.  Even  if  human 
w^eakness  could  be  seen  in  him,  yet  the  power 
of  God  overcame  it.  The  battle  between  the 
spirit  and  the  flesh  in  Christ  and  in  Huss 
is  sweet  to  see.  All  testimony  says  that  Huss 
was  most  learned  and  Jerome  of  Prague 
most  eloquent;  more  cannot  be  said.  Huss 
knew  more  than  the  whole  world  and  was  con- 
demned, though  innocent.  From  that  time 
the  papal  power  began  to  fall  and  retro- 
grade." Schiefer  added:  "The  city  of 
Constance  is  wretched."  Luther:  "  I  be- 
lieve God  has  punished  it  for  having  con- 
demned Huss." 

^See:  John  Huss:   The  Church,  translated  by  D.  S.  Schaff. 
New  York,  1915. 

[1971 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

"  It  is  our  Lord's  way  to  proceed  in  ac- 
cordance with  the  text:  *  My  strength  is 
made  perfect  in  weakness/^  Thus  he  first 
makes  the  earth  a  rough  mass,  and  after- 
wards forms  all  things  one  by  one.  He  does 
not  create  man  immediately,  but  first  makes 
the  land.  Likewise  he  first  hides  the  seed 
in  the  earth,  from  which  the  tree  grows  but 
slowly.  He  could  make  everything  at  once 
by  a  single  word,  but  he  does  not  wish  to. 
It  is  not  his  way,  to  make  something  out  of 
nothing.  Thus  our  reform  movement  was 
weak  at  first,  but  it  grew  from  day  to  day. 
John  Huss  was  the  seed;  he  must  first  die, 
burned  at  the  stake.  Would  not  that  seem 
to  the  human  reason  great  weakness?  But 
see  what,  after  a  hundred  years,  has  come  of 
it!" 

When  Agricola  read  some  letters  of  John 
Huss,  which  he  had  translated,  letters  which 
breathed  the  noblest  spirit,  patience  and 
eloquence  and  which  described  how  he  had 
been  tortured  in  prison  by  an  attack  of  the 
stone  and  was  spurned  by  King  Sigismund, 
Luther  expressed  his  admiration  for  the 
spirit  of  Huss,  who  had  written  such  things 
with  so  great  fortitude:  "  He  was  a  rare  man. 
His  death  has  been  well  avenged,  for  soon 

»  2  Cor.  xii,  9. 

1198] 


WYCLIF  AND   HUSS 


afterwards  SIglsmund  suffered  the  greatest 
misfortunes:  His  wife  became  a  harlot  for 
the  whole  court,  and  the  Bohemians  de- 
vastated Germany  everywhere;  they  set 
Nuremberg  on  fire,  and  penetrated  even  as 
far  as  Zeitz.  The  Germans  several  times 
showed  their  heels." 


11991 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


31.    PHILIP  MELANCHTHON. 

"  In  the  Acts  of  the  Apostles  you  see  our 
pictures.  In  James  we  see  a  Melanchthon 
who  was  so  conservative  that  he  wished  to 
keep  the  law;  in  Peter  I  am  portrayed,  as 
one  who  burst  through  it  with,  *  Why  would 
ye  burden  them  with  the  law?'  Melanch- 
thon acts  in  charity  and  faith  and  lets  him- 
self be  smitten.  I  smite  and  spare  no  one. 
So  God  operates  in  diversity  of  gifts.  Me- 
lanchthon is  too  moderate,  he  only  encourages 
the  papists.  He  wishes  to  serve  all  men  by 
love.  If  the  papists  used  me  as  they  do  him 
I  would  hit  back." 

"  The  most  excellent  of  the  prophets  are 
Isaiah  and  Daniel.  I  am  Isaiah,  Philip^  is 
Jeremiah.  Jeremiah  was  always  worrying 
for  fear  he  scolded  too  much,  and  so  is 
PhiHp." 

"  Melanchthon  is  lighter  than  I  and  there- 
fore more  easily  moved  if  things  don't  go 
his  way.  I  am  heavier  and  stupider  and 
am  not  so  much  affected  by  things  I  cannot 
remedy.  Time  heals  many  things,  but  worry- 
ing about  them  does  not.  In  treating 
Scripture  I  am  more  vehement  than  Melanch- 

^  Luther  usually  speaks  of  Melanchthon  by  his  first  name. 

[200] 


PHILIP  MELANCHTHON 


thon  though  he  is  quite  bitter  in  his  pamphlet 
on  the  church.  I  mean  to  say  the  substance 
of  his  book  is  strong,  but  the  words  do  not 
seem  to  me  to  correspond  to  the  sense, 
perhaps  because  I  do  not  understand  the 
force  of  Latin.  I  rough  hew  and  Melanch- 
thon  planes." 

Luther  said  to  Melanchthon:  "Do  you 
wish  to  obey  God  or  man?"  "God,"  he 
replied,  "  for  it  is  better  to  fall  into  the  hands 
of  the  Lord  than  into  the  hands  of  men." 
Luther  continued:  "Will  you  hear  God's 
Word  immediately  or  through  a  man?"  — 
"  Through  a  man." — "  Then  I  command  you 
in  God's  name  to  stop  studying  and  working 
until  I  bid  you  do  otherwise,  for  God  wills 
that  we  keep  a  sabbatical  rest." 

While  we  were  singing,  the  doctor  re- 
marked: "Every  one  is  rushing  into  print. 
So  many  books!  " — "  Aye  "  assented  several, 
"  dialectic  books."  —  "  Fool  books,"  con- 
tinued Luther,  "  Melanchthon  alone  writes 
dialectic;  all  drink  from  this  source  but  no 
one  follows  Melanchthon,  much  less  over- 
takes him." 

Speaking  of  Melanchthon  it  was  said  that 
he  used  great  moderation  in  the  Evangelical 
cause.  Luther  said:  "The  little  man  is 
pious,  and  when  he  does  wrong  it  is  not  with 

1201] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

malice  prepense.  In  his  way  he  has  ac- 
complished much  but  he  has  been  unfortunate 
in  the  dedications  of  his  books. ^  To  judge 
by  results  I  should  say  that  my  way  was  the 
better,  to  speak  and  hit  out  like  a  boy. 
Blunt  wedges  rive  hard  knots. "^ 

"  Melanchthon  kept  me  a  day  at  Schmal- 
kalden^  with  his  godless  and  shabby  astrology, 
because  it  was  a  new  moon.  Once  he  would 
not  cross  the  Elbe  during  a  new  moon.  But 
we  are  lords  of  our  stars." 

"  Vergil  has  made  many  bad  poets,  Me- 
lanchthon many  bad  logicians  and  I  many 
bad  theologians.  Some  write  by  a  wooden 
rule  and  think  if  they  have  three  propositions 
they  have  a  syllogism." 

"  I  think  that  Philip  takes  up  the  study  of 
astrology  just  as  I  take  a  strong  drink  of 
beer,  whenever  I  have  heavy  thoughts." 

"  Little,  trivial  matters  bother  me  very 
much;  large  affairs,  however,  do  not,  for  I 
say  to  myself:  *  This  is  beyond  you,  you 
cannot  grasp  it,  so  let  it  go.'  That  is  not 
the  way  with   Philip    however.     He  is  not 

*  Melanchthon  had  dedicated  books  to  Albert  of  Mainz, 
and  to  Henry  VIII. 

'  Malo  nodo  malus  cunfus,  a  proverb  several  times  used  by 
Luther.  This  rendering  is  borrowed  from  Shakespeare, 
Troilus  and  Cresstda. 

»  February,  1537.     Cf.  Smith,  Luther,  p.  308ff. 

[202] 


PHILIP  MELANCHTHON 


moved  by  things  that  trouble  me,  but  rather 
by  weighty  affairs  of  politics  and  religion. 
Only  private  matters  rest  heavily  on  me. 
Thus  do  gifts  vary." 

"  Philip  has  done  more  in  logic  than  any 
one  in  a  thousand  years.  I  knew  the  sub- 
ject theoretically,  but  Philip  has  taught  me  to 
apply  it  concretely.  No  one  can  pay  Philip 
for  his  work.  He  has  to  live  in  a  poor  house.* 
Perhaps  it  is  adequate  for  advancing  the 
gospel.  He  is  diifident.  God  help  him. 
He  will  get  to  heaven,  and  thus  he  will  be 
paid;  the  world  will  not  pay  him  for  his  pains 
and  his  labor." 

"  Philip  also  has  completely  lost  the  good 
will  of  the  papists.  For  a  while  he  was 
determined  to  handle  the  matter  with  his 
gentle  reasonableness;  now  he  sees  that  that 
will  not  avail  with  knaves." 

When  the  conversation  fell  upon  the 
liberality  of  Melanchthon,  Schiefer  said: 
"  Doctor,  if  Philip  were  bishop  of  Salzburg, 
would  he  remain  so  generous?"  "Most 
certainly,"  replied  Luther,  "  for  he  has  the 
true  knowledge  of  Christ  Jesus." 

Luther's  wife  said:  "Philip  has  received 
more    in    gifts    from    the    king   of   England, 

*  Luther  is  speaking  in  1532.  Melanchthon's  new  house, 
which  is  still  standing,  was  completed  in  1537.  Tischreden, 
Weimar  Ed.,  ii,  128. 

I  203  J 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

namely,  500  gulden,  —  while  we  received 
only  50,  —  and  from  the  elector  100,  besides 
80  thalers  from  I  know  not  whom."  The 
doctor  replied:  "And  he  expends  much 
upon  his  friends  and  upon  strangers.  He 
distributes  this  treasure.  And  he  would  be 
worthy  of  it,  if  he  should  be  given  a  kingdom, 
so  great  a  man  is  he  and  so  deserving  of 
reward  from  the  Roman  empire  and  the 
church,  not  only  throughout  Germany  but 
also  in  other  lands." 

"  Philip  has  written  good  books,  and  no 
one  will  write  better  on  penance.  And  the 
commentaries  on  Romans  and  Colossians, 
and  the  Commonplaces,  those  are  divine 
books,  and  the  [Augsburg]  Confession  and  the 
Apology!  Ah,  how  fine  it  is  to  study  now, 
as  compared  with  former  times!  " 

Schiefer  said  of  Melanchthon:  "  He  Is  a 
great  man  and  willing  to  take  upon  himself 
a  large  amount  of  work.  Wherefore  the 
youths  ought  to  spare  him,  and  not  burden 
him  so  much  with  their  writings.  But  our 
youth  are  little  wiser  than  swine."  To  this 
Luther  added:  "  Philip  does  not  observe  the 
sabbath,  but  Is  a  common  drudge  and  the 
servant  of  servants." 


15204 


HERETICS 


32.  HERETICS. 

"  Upon  brothers  who  withdraw  themselves 
from  us,^  we  are  unable  to  inflict  more  severe 
punishment  than  to  let  them  go  their  way  and 
do  what  they  will.  One  exception,  however, 
we  make  to  this:  we  shall  not  consent  to  be 
of  their  company  and  to  call  them  brothers. 
And  so  we  send  them  to  hell  in  their  own 
finery." 

On  April  5,  1532,  at  dinner,  Luther  said 
concerning  heretics:  "  I  like  violent  fanatics; 
they  destroy  themselves.  Paul  is  the  wisest 
man  since  Christ;  he  says:  *  A  man  that  is  a 
heretic,  after  the  first  and  second  admoni- 
tion, reject.'  "^ 

"  False  brethren  we  shall  in  no  wise  en- 
dure, while  life  remains  to  us;  but  if  they 
are  willing  to  confess  their  wickedness  and 
admit  that  they  are  without  Christ,  then  we 
will  endure  all  things  from  them,  even  though 
they  kill  us." 

"  By  far  the  greatest  battle  that  Chris- 
tians have  to  fight  is  that  with  the  false 
brethren,  and  the  fight  is  so  hard  because, 
although  they  are  not  Christians,  they  wish 
to  be  known  as  such.     If  they  were  willing 

^  I.e.  schismatics.  '  Tit.  iii,  10. 

[205] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

to  call  themselves  Pilates,  Judases  and 
Herods,  that  is,  if  they  were  willing  to  lay- 
aside  the  name  Christian,  we  would  endure  all 
the  injuries  they  dared  to  bring  upon  us; 
war  would  cease  and  there  would  be  peace 
between  them  and  us.  Since,  however,  they 
insist  on  being  regarded  as  Christians,  we 
must  fight  them  and  in  no  wise  suffer  them 
to  speak  and  do  with  impunity  what  is  not 
befitting  Christians.  For  we  claim  for  our- 
selves through  the  Word  the  dominion  over 
consciences,  and  we  will  not  permit  it  to  be 
taken  from  us." 

"  I  believe  that  the  Anabaptists,  who  talk 
so  volubly  about  their  being  angels  of  God 
sent  to  purge  the  world  in  the  year  1540,  are 
incendiaries,  for  they  kill^  themselves  and 
confess  nothing,  and  they  believe  themselves 
to  be  martyrs  like  the  Donatists,^  who  threw 
themselves  into  the  water  from  towers  and 
rocks  and  begged  passers-by  to  kill  them  and 
make  them  martyrs.  Against  them  Augus- 
tine disputed,  saying:  *  It  is  not  the  punish- 
ment, but  the  cause,  that  makes  a  martyr.'  " 

"  Agricola  still  calls  himself  the  son  of 
God.  That  is  the  peculiarity  of  all  heretics, 
to  believe  that  they  have  the  spirit  of  God, 

*  /.(?.,  by  refusing  to  recant  and  submitting  to  death  for 
heresy. 

*  Heretics  who  were  obnoxious  to  St.  Augustine. 

[206] 


HERETICS 


and  to  know  nothing  of  original  sin.  They 
think  themselves  saints.  In  myself,  however, 
I  find  no  sanctity,  but  rather  great  weakness. 
Hardly  have  I  begun  to  be  tempted  when  I 
recognize  the  spirit,  but  the  flesh  fighteth 
against  it.  Idolatry  is  an  offense  against 
the  first  commandment!  I  should  like  very 
much  to  feel  myself  formally  justified,  but 
I  cannot  find  it  in  me."  Bugenhagen  added 
"  Doctor,  I  don't  find  it  in  myself  either." 


1207 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


33.  CONCERNING  LIES 

"  Lies  are  of  four  kinds :  First  the  sportive 
lie,  a  hearty,  ludicrous  jest,  which  affords 
amusement  or  cheers  up  those  who  are  de- 
pressed. Second  the  charitable  lie,  a  good 
useful  lie,  which  springs  from  the  desire  to 
help  our  kindred  or  our  friends,  as  for  ex- 
ample, that  of  Abraham,  when  he  said  that 
his  wife  Sarah  was  his  sister,^  or  of  Michal, 
when  she  saved  David,^  or  of  Elisha,  when  he 
said  to  the  Syrians:  'This  is  not  the  way, 
nor  is  this  the  city.'^  The  third  kind  is 
the  noxious  lie,  which  seeks  to  deceive  and 
injure,  according  to  the  way  of  the  world. 
The  fourth  is  the  irreverent  lie,  by  which  God 
is  blasphemed.  The  first  two  are  praise- 
worthy, since  they  do  no  harm;  the  last  two 
are  intolerable,  since  they  offend  both  man 
and  God.  There  is  also  another  kind, 
namely,  the  necessary  lie,  although  it  does 
not  differ  much  from  the  second  kind,  the 
charitable;  and  this  may  be  resorted  to 
without  fault,  if  it  is  not  accompanied  by  an 
oath  such  as  '  really,'  '  truly,'  '  by  God/  or 
the  like." 

1  Gen.  X2,  2.  « 1  Sara.,  xlx,  13.  » 2  Kings,  vl,  19. 

[208] 


CONCERNING  LIES 


"  A  liar  is  far  worse  than  a  murderer  and 
does  more  harm,  because  he  deceives,  while 
the  murderer  is  unable  to  deceive.  Judas, 
however,  was  both  a  liar  and  a  murderer, 
like  his  father  the  devil." 

"  It  is  a  marvel  that  when  Judas  was  eat- 
ing at  table  with  Christ  and  the  disciples 
he  should  not  have  blushed  with  shame,when 
Christ  said:^  '  One  of  you  shall  betray  me.' 
The  other  disciples  had  not  the  slightest 
suspicion  that  Judas  was  about  to  betray 
Christ;  each  one  feared  indeed  that  he 
himself  would  be  the  traitor  rather  than 
Judas,  to  whom  Christ  had  entrusted  the 
purse  and  the  whole  business  management, 
on  account  of  which  he  was  held  in  the  highest 
esteem  among  the  apostles." 

*Mat.,  xxvi,  21. 


209 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


34.  TEMPTATIONS. 

"  Temptation  therefore  saves  us  from  pride, 
and  at  the  same  time  Increases  our  knowledge 
of  Christ  and  his  gifts,  for  with  it  God  has 
given  me  a  glorious  victory.  By  it  I  con- 
quered my  monkery  and  monastic  vows 
and  the  mass  and  all  such  abominations. 
How  could  God  do  otherwise?  Since  neither 
the  pope  nor  the  emperor  can  quell  me  the 
devil  must  do  it,  or  my  virtue  will  perish 
for  lack  of  an  enemy.  Peter  finely  says, 
'  Ye  know  that  the  same  afflictions  are  ac- 
complished in  your  brethren  that  are  in  the 
world, '^  for  we  are  not  alone  but  there  are 
many  who  have  the  same  trials.  We  are 
not  without  consolation;  our  victory  remains 
through  remission  of  sins.  We  who  know 
our  sins  have  no  cause  to  fear,  but  only  those 
who  don't  know  them.  It  all  depends  on 
*  rightly  dividing  the  word  of  truth,'^  as 
St.  Paul  says,  for  we  should  not  be  terrified 
by  the  hard  sayings  and  examples,  but  should 
take  to  ourselves  the  promises. 

"  Therefore,  dear  Schlaglnhaufen,  suffer 
temptation  for  God's  glory  and  pray  no 
more  for  freedom  except  as  it  may  please 

1 1  Peter,  v.  9.  U  Tim.,  ii,  15. 

[2101 


TEMPTATIONS 


him.  It  is  profitable  that  we  should  know 
the  arts  of  the  devil.  He  takes  the  smallest 
sins  and  exaggerates  them.  Once  he  tor- 
tured and  almost  throttled  me  with  what 
Paul  wrote  Timothy,^  so  that  my  heart 
almost  melted  in  my  body.  *  You  were  the 
cause,'  said  he,  *  of  many  monks  and  nuns 
leaving  the  cloister.'  He  completely  took 
the  thought  of  justification  out  of  my  mind, 
and  held  up  one  text  after  another  against 
me,  both  from  the  law  and  the  gospel. 
Bugenhagen  was  with  me,  and  I  put  the 
text  to  him.  He  began  to  doubt  himself, 
though  he  knew  not  how  hard  I  was  pressed 
and  how  I  feared  and  consumed  the  night 
with  heavy  heart.  The  next  day  he  came  to 
me  and  said:  *  I  am  right  angry,  for  I  have 
examined  the  text  carefully  and  the  argu- 
ment is  ridiculous.'  So  it  is  when  one  is 
himself,  but  not  otherwise." 

"  The  temptations  that  come  during  life, 
which  great  saints  like  Paul  suffer,  are  far 
more  severe  than  the  pains  of  death." 

^  About    voung    widows    waxing    wanton    and  marrying? 
1  Tim.  V,  11. 


12111 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


3S,  QUESTIONS. 

These  are  only  a  few  of  the  multitude  of  questions  that  were 
put  to  Luther  by  his  companions  and  friends.  His  answers 
to  such  questions  make  up  a  large  part  of  his  table  talk. 

When  asked  whether  a  priest  might  refuse 
to  visit  a  sick  man,  Luther  said:  "  No!  By 
my  body,  no!  Priests  must  not  flee  too  soon, 
for  it  makes  the  people  fearfuL  But,  as  has 
been  said,  we  should  spare  the  clergy  and 
not  load  them  down  at  the  time  of  the  plague, 
and  when  one  is  taken  away  another  should 
be  provided  to  visit  the  sick.  In  like  manner 
we  should  not  shun  priests  at  the  time  of  the 
plague,  as  we  see  people  do.  It  is  good  not 
to  burden  all  with  the  duties  of  visiting  the 
sick  but  to  select  one  or  two.  If  the  lot  fell 
to  me  I  should  not  avoid  it.  I  have  sur- 
vived three  plagues  and  visited  several 
persons  who  had  it,  such  as  Schadewald,  who 
had  two  plague  spots  which  I  touched. 
But  it  did  not  hurt  me,  thank  God!  After- 
wards when  I  returned  home  I  took  up 
Margaret,  who  was  then  a  baby,  and  put 
my  unwashed  hands  on  her  face,  but  it  was 
because  I  had  forgotten;  otherwise  I  should 
not  have  done  it,  which  would  have  been 
tempting  God.^' 

[212] 


QUESTIONS 


Asked  by  a  young  margrave  why  he  wrote 
so  vehemently,  Luther  replied:  "Our  Lord 
God  must  first  let  fall  a  good  hard  thunder 
shower,  then  a  fine  gentle  rain,  and  thus  the 
ground  is  thoroughly  moistened.  Again, 
I  can  divide  a  little  willow  stick  with  my 
knife,  but  for  a  hard  oak  one  needs  an  axe 
and  wedge  and  even  then  can  hardly  split 
it/' 

When  a  letter  was  received  asking  whether 
it  was  permissible  to  baptize  with  warm 
water,  the  doctor  answered:  "Tell  the 
ninny  that  water  is  water,  whether  it  is  cold 
or  warm.'' 

When  Luther  was  asked  whether  it  was 
better  to  fight  against  the  enemy  or  to  ex- 
hort, teach  and  raise  up  the  infirm,  he  re- 
plied: "Both  are  good  and  necessary.  To 
comfort  the  weak  is  certainly  somewhat 
greater,  although  those  who  fight  are  im- 
proved by  battling  with  adversaries.  Either 
one  is  a  gift  of  God.  '  He  that  teacheth, 
let  him  wait  on  teaching,  or  he  that  ex- 
horteth,  on  exhortation.'  "^ 

On  one  occasion  P  asked  Doctor  Luther: 
"  My  dear  doctor,  how  does  it  happen  that 
one  imagines  such  dreadful  things  when  one 

*  Romans,  xli,  7-8, 

*  Schlaginhaufen,  who  noted  this  conversation  in  1532. 

1213] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

hears  a  noise  or  is  otherwise  disturbed  during 
the  night,  when  commonly  the  very  worst 
fears  occur  to  one?"  Doctor  Martin  re- 
plied: "The  devil  does  it.  Thieves,  bur- 
glars and  murderers  are  at  work  then,  hence 
one  cannot  think  of  anything  good.  If  we 
lived  fine  Christian  lives,  then  we  should 
have  pleasant  thoughts."  / 

Luther  was  asked:  "Since  all  men  were 
damned  on  account  of  Adam's  fall,  why  are 
not  all  saved  through  Christ?  Why  do 
many  remain  irreligious?"  "That  ques- 
tion," he  said,  "  is  inexplicable.  It  can  be 
and  ought  to  be  answered  only  by  a  positive 
statement.  When  the  query  is  urged:  Why 
is  God  so  exasperated  with  anger  against 
human  beings  that  he  rejects  them  all  at 
once  and  gives  them  over  to  condemnation? 
the  reply  should  be  made  that  he  is  not  angry, 
because  he  gave  his  only  begotten  Son  as  a 
price  for  us,  which  proves  that  he  does  not 
wish  to  destroy  or  to  condemn. 

"  If,  moreover,  it  is  asked.  Why  does  God 
permit  men  to  rush  to  destruction?  you  should 
ask  in  reply.  Why  did  God  give  his  own  Son 
over  unto  death?  For  is  not  the  latter  a 
more  certain  indication  of  love  than  the 
former  is  of  hate?  True  it  is  indeed  that 
Satan    deceived    Adam,    but   on    the    other 

1214] 


QUESTIONS 


hand  consider  that  soon  after  the  fall  Adam 
received  the  promise  concerning  the  woman's 
seed.^  We  may  estimate  therefore,  from  his 
mission,  how  great  is  the  goodness  of  the 
Father  towards  the  world,  which  on  so  many 
accounts  is  most  wicked." 
^.^c3'  Accordingly  we  should  not  look  to  see 
how  many  evils  and  sins,  how  many  miseries 
and  calamities  of  all  kinds,  our  human  na- 
ture is  subject  to  and  how  many  are  con- 
demned for  their  wickedness,  for  God  could 
have  prevented  all  those  things,  if  he  had 
never  created  us  or  the  world;  but  rather  we 
should  consider  this,  that  God  has  willed 
that  all  things  be  thus  accomplished.  Let 
his  will  therefore  stand  for  a  reason.^  And 
do  not  obtrude  that  satanic  Wherefore  into 
divine  matters!  God  is  not  pleased  with 
oUch  questions  nor  is  he  able  to  endure  them 
with  equanimity,  since  he  is  Lord  and  ad- 
ministrator of  all  things,  and  wishes  to  arrange 
all  in  accordance  with  his  wisdom.  For 
not  even  a  man  would  take  in  good  part 
such  questions  from  another  man.  In  order, 
however,  that  we  may  be  certain  concerning 
the  will  of  God,  as  to  who  are  to  be  saved 
and  who  are  not  to  be  saved,  he  has  willed 


V  ^  Gen.  ill,  15. 
v     -Juvenal's  Satires,  vi,  223. 

[215] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

that  this  be  made  known  to  us  through  his 
Word,  when  he  said:  *  He  that  believeth  and 
is  baptized  shall  be  saved;  but  he  that  be- 
lieveth not,  shall  be  damned.'^  In  conclu- 
sion, we  must  believe  that  God  is  by  far 
the  best  and  most  beneficent  being,  who  ac- 
complishes things  which  not  only  no  man 
does,  but  which  no  man  is  able  to  do.  That 
he  sometimes,  however,  does  things  which 
strike  us  as  unreasonable,  and  are  beyond 
our  comprehension,  is  not  a  matter  for  us  to 
inquire  into;  it  is  enough  for  us  to  know  that 
he  does  nothing  without  a  fixed  purpose. 
But  to  go  beyond  that  and  anxiously  investi- 
gate the  counsels  or  works  of  the  divine 
Majesty,  would  be  like  trying  to  measure 
the  wind  with  a  bushel,  or  to  weigh  fire  with 
scales." 

When  Luther  was  asked  why  God  had 
created  flies  and  other  evils  infinite  in  num- 
ber, which  do  so  much  harm  to  man  and 
other  creatures,  whereas  we  read  in  Genesis: 
"  And  God  saw  everything  that  he  had  made, 
and  behold,  it  was  very  good,"  he  replied: 
"  Whatever  God  has  made  is  good  in  itself, 
and  if  we  had  remained  in  the  innocence  of 
Adam,  we  should  have  been  able  to  play  with 
adders  and  snakes  as  we  do  with  friendly 

» Mark  xvl,  16. 

[216] 


QUESTIONS 


dogs  and  cats.  But  after  the  transgression 
and  fall  of  Adam  all  things  were  made 
troublesome  and  harmful  to  us.  For  God 
cursed  the  ground  and  said:  'Thorns  and 
thistles  shall  it  bring  forth  to  thee.'  The 
pronoun  thee  spoils  all;  they  can  serve  us  no 
more,  for  their  power  to  do  so  has  been 
removed." 

Peter  Weller  said:  *'  It  is  an  amazing 
thing  that  God  is  so  powerful  and  yet  does 
not  make  all  men  good."  Luther  replied: 
"  Dear  friend,  go  up  to  heaven  and  ask  God 
why  it  is.  Yet  on  the  earth,  in  all  God's 
works,  you  may  see  that  he  is  wise,  powerful 
and  good." 

Elizabeth,  the  wife  of  Dr.  Cruciger,  asked 
Luther:  "  What  ought  a  pious  and  Christian 
man  to  do  if  in  a  church  of  the  papists  he 
should  see  the  mass  celebrated  or  the  sacra- 
ment of  the  body  and  blood  elevated  by  the 
priest.^"  Luther  replied:  "My  dear  Elsa, 
snatch  not  the  priest  from  the  altar  nor  put 
out  the  candles!  If  I  were  in  a  church  of 
theirs  at  the  elevation  of  the  sacrament,  I 
should  raise  my  hands  just  as  the  rest  did. 
I  should  adore  it  in  reverence,  because  it  is 
a  true  sacrament,  since  all  the  substantial 
elements  are  present.  Particularly  the  great 
mass  as  celebrated  by  the  papists  is  right, 

[2171 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

for  the  priest  consecrates  it,  and  besides  it 
has  the  general  approval  of  the  church. 
It  is  otherwise  with  the  private  mass,  which 
is  no  mass  at  all;  it  is  not  known  whether 
the  priest  consecrates  it,  nor  is  it  supported 
by  the  public  profession  of  the  church  as  a 
whole.  Naaman,  the  Syrian,  was  permitted 
by  Elisha  to  go  with  his  king  into  the  temple 
where  idols  were  being  worshiped,  and  St. 
Sebastian  was  willing  to  keep  his  faith 
hidden,  unless  questioned.  Therefore  it  is 
quite  allowable  for  you  to  be  present  at  the 
celebration  of  their  sacraments,  provided 
you  do  not  in  your  mind  approve  of  their 
impieties." 

Master  Hyneck^  questioned  Luther  as 
follows:  "  Doctor,  if  I  had  some  Hungarian 
gold  pieces  or  other  treasure  which  I  was 
unwilling  to  expend,  and  some  one  should 
come  to  me  for  a  loan,  would  it  be  possible 
with  a  good  conscience  to  refuse  him  and 
say  that  I  had  no  money?  "  The  doctor 
replied  that  this  could  be  done  with  a  good 
conscience,  for  in  saying  that  he  had  no 
money,  he  would  mean  that  he  had  none  to 
lend.  "John  indeed  says:  *  But  whoso  hath 
this   world's   goods,    and    seeth   his    brother 

*  Hyneck  is  a  pet  name  used  for  Ignatius,  in  this  case 
Ignatius  Perknowsky,  one  of  Luther's  boarders. 

[218] 


QUESTIONS 


have  need,  and  shutteth  up  his  bowels  of 
compassion  from  him,  how  dwelleth  the  love 
of   God    in    him?'^    and    Christ    also    says: 

*  Give  to  him  that  asketh  thee,'^  meaning 
to  him  that  is  in  real  need;   he  does  not  say: 

*  Give  to  every  idle  and  prodigal  person,' 
yet  these  are  commonly  the  greatest  beggars, 
and  although  one  gives  them  a  great  deal, 
they  are  not  helped  thereby.  There  is  no 
needy  person  in  this  city,  aside  from  the 
students.  The  poverty  in  the  city  is  great 
but  the  laziness  is  still  greater;  hardly  any 
of  the  poor  can  be  induced  to  work  for 
money,  yet  they  will  all  beg.  There  is  no 
real  government  here.  For  Christian^  and 
Paceus"*  there  is  nothing  that  one  can  do; 
if  I  could  help  them,  I  wouldn't:  the  more 
one  helps  them  the  worse  off  they  are.  I 
am  not  going  to  take  food  from  my  wife  and 
children  and  give  it  to  those  who  will  not  be 
helped  by  it.  Certainly  the  needy  ought  to 
be  provided  for;  and  If  any  one  is  really  in 
need,  I  will  aid  him  heartily  in  proportion 
to  my  ability.     Nor  ought  any  one  to  inter- 

» 1  John  Hi,  17. 

'  Matthew,  v.  42, 

'An  unidentified  student. 

*  Probably  Valentine  Hartung,  at  this  time  (1532)  deacon 
in  Leisnig.  On  March  5  of  the  following  year  Luther  wrote 
to  the  elector  in  his  behalf.     DeWette,  Luthers  Briefr,  iv,  438. 

[219  1 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

pret  superstltiously  the  passage:  *  He  that 
hath  two  coats,  let  him  impart  to  him  that 
hath  none.'^  For  in  the  Scriptures  one 
coat  means  all  the  clothing  which  any  one 
needs,  according  to  one's  position  and  the 
demands  made  upon  one,  just  as  by  bread  is 
meant  all  the  food  which  the  body  requires; 
thus  a  coat  is  the  entire  vesture.  The  devil, 
however,  would  gladly  make  new  monks 
of  us  again  by  these  superstitions,  and  give 
to  the  impious  and  idle  the  opportunity  to 
live  in  luxury.  At  one  time  all  those  about 
me  wanted  to  get  rich,  and  there  was  no  end 
of  begging." 

When  asked  how  the  evangelists^  were 
able  to  write  down  what  Christ  said  in  the 
garden  before  the  passion,  when  not  all  of 
them  were  present,  and  the  three  who  were 
there  were  also  asleep,  the  doctor  replied: 
"  Do  you  not  think  that  Christ  told  them 
this  after  the  resurrection,  when  he  lived 
with  them  yet  forty  days?  O,  he  no  doubt 
told  them  many  a  good  thing  besides!  Also 
the  prayer  which  he  made  was  certainly 
longer,  for  he  prayed  about  half  an  hour, 
and  many  an  argument  must  have  occurred 
to  him." 

*  Luke  Hi,  11. 

'  Matthew  xxvi,  39;  Mark,  xlv,  35;  Luke,  xxii,  41. 

[220] 


QUESTIONS 


Then  some  one  else  asked  him:  "  How  could 
the  apostles  sleep,  since  anxiety  prevents 
sleep?  "  He  replied:  "  Oh,  the  disciples  had 
no  special  anxiety.  They  pitied  him  when 
they  observed  what  he  was  doing,  but  sleep 
overcame  them.  As  when  several  people 
watch  by  the  side  of  a  sick  person;  they 
condole  with  him,  but  they  often  fall  asleep, 
while  it  is  impossible  for  him  to  sleep.  There- 
fore he  comes  three  times  and  asks  them  to 
awake:  '  Only  do  not  sleep!  To  think  that 
you  do  not  even  speak  with  mel '  Ay,  that 
is  a  great  weakness  in  Christ,  that  he  should 
ask  help  of  those  whom  he  has  created! 
No  human  heart  can  realize  what  he  must 
have  suffered,  when  he  sweated  blood.  Those 
were  our  sins  that  he  bore." 

Some  one  said:  "Doctor,  what  ought  I 
to  do  when  I  find  men  in  my  church,  as  I 
do  sometim^es,  who  have  abstained  from  the 
sacraments  for  twenty  years  ?  "  "  Let  them 
go  to  the  devil!  "  replied  the  Doctor.  "  And 
if  they  die,  then  lay  them  on  the  flaying- 
place!''  After  a  pause,  the  question  was 
asked:  "  Should  they  even  be  compelled  to 
come  to  the  sacrament?  "  "  By  no  means!  '* 
answered  Luther.  "  That  is  the  way  of  the 
papists.  Just  speak  to  them!"  And  he 
added:    "  I  wonder  why  they  stay  away  so 

1 221 J 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

much  from  the  sacraments.     Perhaps  they 
are  afraid  of  private  confession." 

Some  one  asked:  "  If  a  priest  absolved  a 
woman,  who  had  killed  her  child,  and  the 
affair  had  been  bruited  about  by  others, 
ought  the  priest  also,  if  asked,  to  testify 
concerning  the  matter  before  the  judge.'*  " 
"  Not  at  all,"  said  the  doctor,  for  "  the  civil 
court  and  the  court  of  conscience  are  to  be 
kept  distinct.  That  woman  has  confessed 
nothing  to  me,  but  to  Christ.  But  if  Christ 
is  silent,  I  ought  to  be  silent  and  simply 
deny  that  I  had  heard  anything.  If  Christ 
has  heard  anything,  let  him  tell  it.  I  would, 
however,  say  to  the  woman  privately  during 
absolution:  '  You  whore,  don't  ever  do  that 
again!'"  —  "Doctor,  what  if  the  woman 
herself  should  say  that  she  had  been  absolved 
by  you,  and  should  claim  her  freedom  on  the 
ground  that  Christ  had  dismissed  her?  Are 
the  judges,  therefore,  competent  to  pass  upon 
the  case?"  Luther  replied:  "I  say  again 
that  the  two  courts  are  to  be  kept  separate. 
And  if  I  were  cited  in  this  matter  again,  I 
would  refuse,  for  I  am  not  the  man  to  talk 
and  give  testimony  in  a  civil  court,  but  in 
a  court  of  conscience.  Therefore  I  should 
say:  If  she  is  absolved,  I,  Doctor  Martin, 
know  nothing  about  it,  but  Christ,  with  whom 

[222] 


QUESTIONS 


she  has  spoken,  to  whom  she  has,  or  has 
not,  confessed  something,  knows;  he  cer- 
tainly knows  whether  he  has  absolved  her  or 
not;  I  know  nothing  about  it,  for  it  is  not  I, 
but  Christ,  that  hears  confession." 

When  a  question  was  raised  concerning 
matrimonial  matters  and  the  conversation 
fell  upon  the  case  of  Hannah  Moniana  the 
doctor  said  that  she  was  legally  freed  from 
Corbianus,  since  she  was  twenty-three  years 
old  and  of  age.  "  For  guardians  haven't 
so  much  power  as  parents  over  their  children. 
Otherwise  the  theologian  would  either  refuse 
flatly  to  consider  marriage  cases  as  belonging 
properly  to  the  magistracy,  or  if  urged,  de- 
liver his  opinion  in  accordance  with  our  doc- 
trine: The  consent  of  the  parents  is  required, 
and  clandestine  engagements  may  be  dis- 
solved by  the  parents,  but  not  by  the  guar- 
dians, other  things  being  equal;  but  if  the 
parties  are  unwilling  to  yield  to  this,  the 
pastor  is  not  bound  by  public  law  to  defend 
his  judgment,  for  it  is  not  the  pastors  who 
have  executive  power,  but  the  public  magis- 
trates." To  this  Luther  added:  "  If  Anna 
Strauss^  should  marry  some  one,  and  I 
should  think  the  marriage  not  for  her  ad- 
vantage, I  should  send  her  to  her  relatives; 

*  Luther's  foster-daughter. 

1223] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

I  should  not  dissolve  the  engagement.  As, 
moreover,  sons  ought  not  to  marry  without 
consent,  so  the  father  ought  not  to  compel 
them  to,  especially  a  step-father  his  step- 
son or  step-daughter.  No  one  ought  to  give 
judgment,  except  a  judge;  a  preacher  is  not 
a  judge,  therefore  he  ought  not  to  give 
judgment." 

Asked  whether  a  marriage  contracted 
without  religious  rites  was  valid,  and  being 
told  that  certain  of  the  older  priests  were 
desirous  of  contracting  marriage  in  this  way, 
Luther  replied:  "  It  doesn't  matter,  even  if 
there  is  no  religious  ceremony,  provided  there 
are  three  good  men  present  as  witnesses 
including  a  priest  and  a  deacon!  It  is  then 
considered  a  marriage.  And  this  should  also 
be  added:  Let  them  not  deny  it!  But  when 
they  are  asked,  let  them  freely  confess! 
It  is  then  a  valid  marriage.'* 

Asked  which  was  higher  among  the  Jewish 
people,  the  priesthood  or  the  authority  of 
the  state,  he  replied:  "  O,  the  priesthood! 
For  that  has  to  do  with  God  while  political 
affairs  are  the  concern  of  men.  The  church 
is  always  more  than  the  state."  Asked  again 
by  the  same  person  whether  God  really 
answered  the  high  priest  from  the  sanctuary, 
he  replied:    "O  yes!     Nothing  is  more  cer- 

1224] 


QUESTIONS 


tain.  And  If  he  heard  the  prayer  of  the 
priest,  there  appeared  the  flame  or  fire  of  God, 
which  is  called  the  Urim  Thummim;^  this 
was  a  sign  that  the  prayer  was  heard.  But 
when  the  flame  did  not  appear,  it  was  a  sign 
that  the  prayer  had  not  been  heard." 
*  Exodus  xxviii,  30. 


[2251 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


36.  MISCELLANEOUS. 

"  The  church  is  an  assembly  of  people 
depending  on  things  that  are  not  seen,  and 
cannot  be  grasped  with  the  senses,  namely 
on  the  Word.  Such  an  assembly  believes 
what  it  professes  without  any  addition,  and 
thanks  God  for  revealing  the  truth  to  us. 
The  godless  see  nothing  in  the  church  (for 
it  irks  and  pains  them  with  its  punishments) 
except  sin  and  weakness,  which  offends  them. 
They  see  the  vices  of  the  church  members 
but  not  the  honor  and  glory  of  the  church." 

"  Wealth  is  the  least  important  of  all 
things  upon  the  earth,  the  smallest  gift  that 
God  has  bestowed  on  man.  What  is  it, 
compared  to  the  Word  of  God?  Yes,  what 
is  it,  compared  even  to  bodily  gifts  and 
beauty?  What  is  it,  compared  to  the  gifts 
of  the  mind?  Yet  people  strive  so  for  it! 
By  no  category  of  logic  can  it  be  called  good 
—  for  its  substance,  its  quality,  as  a  means 
or  as  an  end.  Therefore  God  gives  it  com- 
monly to  coarse  fools,  to  whom  he  means  no 
good." 

Luther:  "  I  wish  I  had  all  that  I  have 
written."  Major:  "  One  could  then  see, 
doctor,  how  your  teaching   grew."      Luther: 

[226] 


MISCELLANEOUS 


**  Yes,  truly.  At  first  I  was  weak,  in  many 
things  very  weak." 

"  I  greatly  delight  in  the  stories  of  Terence 
and  read  him  every  night.  .  .  .  The  Hecyra 
is  a  fine  comedy,  the  best  of  the  author, 
but,  because  it  has  no  action  it  does  not 
please  the  common  student.  But  it  is  full 
of  grave,  sententious  sayings,  useful  for 
common  life,  such  as,  *  All  mothers-in-law 
hate  their  daughters-in-law.'  That  is  a 
great  curse  but  one  can  do  nothing  about 
it.  I  have  seen  many  examples  of  it,  as  for 
instance  at  Eisenach,  when  a  mother-in-law 
spat  in  the  face  of  her  daughter-in-law. 
The  young  women  and  her  friends  were  so 
good  that  they  said:  'What  can  we  do?  She 
is  our  mother? '  And  thus  with  patience 
they  bore  all  their  parents'  injuries. 

"  Building  a  church  is  not  instituting 
ceremonies,  as  wiseacres  think,  but  freeing 
consciences  and  strengthening  faith." 

"  A  sleeping  person  resembles  very  much  a 
dead  one;  it  was  therefore  fitting  to  picture 
sleep  as  the  brother  of  death,  and  to  see  in 
the  day  and  night  the  image  of  life  and 
death." 

"  Among  writers  I  hate  none  so  much  as 
Jerome;  he  has  only  the  name  of  Christian. 
He  writes  on  fasts  and  virginity  but  nothing 

1 227  J 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

of  faith.  Dr.  Staupitz,  his  diligent  pupil, 
said:  *  I  should  be  pleased  to  know  why  he 
was  canonized.'  And  Proles,  Staupitz's  pred- 
ecessor in  the  vicariate,  said:  *  Truly  I 
should  not  wish  to  have  Jerome  for  prior,  he 
is  so  strange." 

"Jerome  is  a  babbler  like  Erasmus;  he 
tried  to  talk  big  and  did  not  succeed.  He 
promises  the  reader  something  but  gives 
nothing.  I  wonder,  too,  at  that  time, 
hardly  three  hundred  years  after  Christ, 
when  the  tongues  were  so  well  understood, 
there  was  such  blindness  in  the  Church. 
Augustine  is  a  reasoner  who  will  know  and 
not  merely  imagine,  and  he  teaches  some- 
thing. He  is  the  best  theologian  who  has 
written  since  the  apostles,  but  we  monks 
read  not  him  but  Scotus." 

"  It  is  a  special  plague  of  the  devil  that  we 
have  no  certain  legends  of  the  saints,  and  it  is 
strange  what  shameful  things  are  in  them. 
It  is  a  hard  labor  to  correct  the  legends." 
Then  he  read  of  St.  Catharine^  and  said: 
"  This  contradicts  all  Roman  history. 
Maxentius  was  drowned  at  Rome  in  the 
Tiber  and  never  went  to  Alexandria,  but 
Maximius  was  there  (see  Eusebius).     Since 

*  St.  Catharine  of  Egypt,  according  to  the  legend  daughter 
of  the  king  of  that  country. 

(228) 


MISCELLANEOUS 


the  time  of  Caesar  and  long  before  there  had 
been  no  king  in  Egypt.  It  must  have  been 
a  desperate  villain  who  vexed  Christendom 
with  such  lies:  he  must  certainly  sit  low  in 
hell.  Such  stories  we  once  believed  and 
would  not  have  dared  to  contradict  had  we 
known  the  truth.  Therefore,  young  men, 
thank  God  that  you  don't  have  to  believe 
such  things,  or  worse,  now." 

Melanchthon  said  to  Luther:  "  Our  em- 
peror will  live  till  1548."^  Luther  replied: 
*'  The  world  won't  last  so  long,  for  Ezekiel 
says  it  won't.  .  .  .  The  end  is  at  hand,  at 
the  very  threshold.  Let  him  who  will  do 
anything  begin  it  betimes.  The  joys  of  the 
world  are  played  out.  The  old  peasants 
before  Vienna  think:  *Ah!  Lord  God,  the 
Turks  will  subdue  us! '  Everything  changes. 
If  I  were  to  enter  my  father's  house  it  would 
look  very  different  to  me  from  what  it  did 
formerly.  The  best  thing  that  ever  came 
out  of  my  father's  property  is  that  he  brought 
me  up.  No  money  is  ever  better  spent  than 
in  education." 

"  The  common  life  of  the  Waldenses  is 
without  doubt  the  best,  at  least  externally. 
They  have  many  correct  doctrines  like  ours; 

^  Melanchthon    made    this    calculation    on    the    basli    of 
astrology. 

1229] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

they  reject  the  mass,  purgatory  and  the 
invocation  of  saints.  They  have  a  celibate 
priesthood,  but  a  minister  may  marry  when 
he  chooses  if  he  resigns  his  office.  We 
should  have  been  obliged  to  have  the  same 
rule,  did  we  not  allow  married  pastors,  for 
otherwise  how  could  we  have  gotten  any? 
The  Waldenses  are  diligent  and  temperate; 
they  tell  the  truth  and  love  their  neighbors, 
and  have  an  excellent  system  of  teaching, 
but  not  the  article  of  justification  by  faith, 
although  they  confess  that  men  are  saved 
by  faith  and  grace.  But  they  understand 
faith  as  the  king  of  virtues  and  explain  it  as 
something  different  from  our  grace." 

On  the  evening  of  April  3,  1538,  the  Prince 
of  Anhalt,  the  elector's  commissary,  asked 
Luther  to  hunt  with  him  the  next  day,  and 
then  to  dine  at  his  house.  Luther  answered: 
"  I  have  been  sent  for  this  very  purpose,  but 
I  am  not  a  great  chaser  of  the  deer;  I  hunt 
the  pope,  cardinals,  bishops,  canons  and 
monks." 

"  It  is  almost  impossible  for  lawyers  to 
be  saved  and  difficult  even  for  theologians. 
Most  of  the  latter  are  now  on  the  way  to 
salvation,  but  Zwingli  and  CEcolampadius 
missed  it.  .  .  .  They  were  in  the  same 
temptation  as  the  papal  lawyers,  of  saying: 

(230] 


MISCELLANEOUS 


*  I  have  done  wrong,  therefore  I  am  damned.' 
Their  speculative  science  tells  them  that 
damnation  is  the  reward  of  sin.  But  theology 
is  a  practical  not  a  speculative  science. 
Zwingli  never  believed,  his  whole  life  long, 
that  Christ  was  really  in  the  sacrament, 
except  in  a  spiritual,  speculative  sense." 

"  The  wicked  and  the  damned  will  be 
under  the  earth  on  the  last  day,  and  while 
they  will  see,  in  some  way,  the  glory  of  the 
blessed,  they  will  be  all  the  more  tormented 
by  the  sight." 

December  16,  1536,  during  exceedingly 
cold  weather  which  had  lasted  for  a  week, 
there  came  a  flash  of  lightning  followed  by 
a  terrific  crash  of  thunder.  Astronomers 
call  this  a  chasma  and  say  that  it  indicates 
dryness  of  the  atmosphere.  Luther  and 
Bugenhagen  both  heard  it,  each  in  his  own 
home,  and  afterwards  they  discussed  the 
question  whether  these  wonderful  portents 
signified  anything,  for  it  was  quite  unnatural 
that  we  near  the  arctic  circle  should  experi- 
ence such  portents  as  might  be  expected  in 
Africa,  Asia  and  places  near  the  tropics, 
and  they  concluded  that  they  were  plainly 
satanical.  "  I  am  of  the  opinion,"  said 
Luther,  "  that  the  devils  were  planning  to 
hold  a  debate,  when  some  angel  interposed 

1231] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

this  chasma  and  thus  tore  up  their  proposi- 
tions. But  the  world  pays  no  heed  to  such 
infinite  signs.  When  Franz  von  Sickingen 
was  about  to  die  a  similar  crash  was  heard  by 
Philip  Melanchthon,  and  one  night  Adolph, 
an  assistant  of  Lucas  Cranach  the  painter, 
when  he  set  out  with  a  peasant  for  Torgau, 
saw  in  the  sky  a  great  star,  near  which  was 
a  man  beating  a  drum,  and  then  in  a  vision 
dreadful  to  behold  he  saw  the  Lord  of  hosts 
in  conflict  with  an  opposing  army.  In 
1516  the  Elector  John  saw  at  Weimar  a 
great  red  star  which  seemed  to  turn  first  into 
a  candle,  then  into  a  cross,  then  into  a  yellow 
star,  and  finally  seemed  to  break  in  pieces. 
This  was  witnessed  in  the  year  before  the 
Evangelical  religion  arose,  and  I  apply  it 
to  the  progress  of  our  faith,  which  arose  red, 
then  burned  as  it  bore  the  cross  of  persecu- 
tion, then  was  dimmed  with  schism  and  now 
remains  a  fixed  star.  But  I  attach  no  cer- 
tain meaning  to  these  signs  which  for  the 
most  part  are  deceptive  and  satanical. 
Many  such  omens  have  been  seen  in  the  last 
fifteen  years,  all  egregiously  disregarded  by 
the  skeptics.  Let  us  await  God's  wrath 
calmly.     Our   neighbor^   has   said,    quite   in 

*  From  a  note  6n  the  margin  of  the  manuscript  Kroker  infers 
that  the  reference  is  to  Henry  the  Younger,  Duke  of  Bruns- 
wick-Wolf  enbiittel. 

{2321 


MISCELLANEOUS 


the  manner  of  Epicurus:  *  I  can  know  noth- 
ing, I  have  learned  nothing.'  But  he  knows 
how  to  oppress  the  people  and  gather  in  their 
money." 

"  Martin  Cellarius,  an  impious  scoundrel, 
wishing  to  deceive  me  by  adulation,  said  that 
my  vocation  was  greater  than  that  of  the 
apostles.  But  I  said:  *  What  am  I  com- 
pared to  the  apostles! '  " 

"  A  sacrament  is  a  human  action  with 
divine    promises,    or    a    visible    sign    with 


promises."^ 

Peter  Weller^  said  that  the  people  of  Esth- 
land  were  simply  Scythians,  with  bad  morals 
and  no  buildings,  sleeping,  baking  and  living 
in  ovens,  looking  like  the  devil.  Dr.  Luther 
answered:  "Don't  lie  yourself  to  death, 
Peter!     You  can  still  be  a  lawyer.'' 

"  I  have  preached  here  twenty-four  years, 
and  have  gone  the  way  to  church  so  often, 
that  it  is  a  wonder  that  I  have  not  worn 
out  my  feet  on  the  plaster  as  well  as  my 
shoes.     I    have    done    my    part,    and    feel 

^  This  is  the  general  definition  of  "sacrament"  which 
Luther  set  forth  in  his  Babylonian  Captivity,  of  1520.  Cf. 
Smith,  Liftr  and  Letters  of  Martin  Luther,  p.  89.  Augustine's 
definition,  adopted  by  most  churches,  is  "the  outward  and 
visible  sign  of  an  inward  and  spiritual  grace."  But  Luther's 
definition  is  substantially  in  accordance  with  Aquinas, 
Summae  Theologiae  Pars  III,  Quaestio  6,  art.  3. 

*A  student  of  jurisprudence  at  Wittenberg.  Esthland  is 
on  the  Gulf  of  Finland. 

12331 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

satisfied.  If  only  I  had  preserved  the  letters 
sent  to  me,  I  should  have  filled  a  great  house. 
The  number  of  these  letters  Is  the  testimony 
to  my  labor.  But  nothing  has  hurt  me  more 
than  worrying,  especially  at  night." 

"  Tomorrow  I  must  lecture  on  the  drunken- 
ness of  Noah,  so  that  I  must  drink  enough 
tonight  to  know  what  I  am  talking  about, 
and  experience  its  evil."  Dr.  Cordatus 
said:  "  By  no  means!  You  ought  to  do  the 
contrary."  Then  Luther:  "  We  must  make 
the  best  of  the  vices  peculiar  to  each  country. 
The  Bohemians  gorge,  the  Wends^  steal, 
the  Germans  swill  right  heartily.  How  then, 
dear  Cordatus,  would  you  beat  a  German 
except  by  making  him  drunk  especially  one 
who  does  not  love  music  and  women?  "^ 

When  he  heard  that  his  books  were  in  the 
elector's  library  he  said:  "  By  no  means  let 
my  books  be  put  into  the  library,  particu- 
larly the  first  ones,  written  in  the  beginning, 
which  offend  not  only  my  adversaries  but 
me  also." 

By  way  of  farewell,  Luther  said  to  some 

*  The  ancient  population  of  Saxony. 

'  This  is  the  nearest  Luther  ever  came  to  the  verse  commonly 
attributed  to  him: 

Who  loves  not  women,  wine  and  song, 
He  lives  a  fool  his  whole  life  long. 
This  verse  appears  first  in  a  book  called  IVandsbecker  Boten 
printed  in  1775. 

12341 


MISCELLANEOUS 


one:  "Just  tell  our  Lord  God  to  be  good, 
and  we  will  fix  everything  all  right." 

"  Games  of  cards  and  dice  are  very  fre- 
quent, for  this  age  has  invented  various 
games.  It  is  so  good  at  cheating!  When  I 
was  a  youth  all  games  were  forbidden,  so 
that  makers  of  cards  and  pipers  were  not 
allowed  to  go  to  the  sacrament,  and  people 
were  forced  to  confess  if  they  had  played  a 
game,  danced  or  attended  an  exhibition 
of  juggling.  But  now  these  diversions  are 
in  high  favor,  and  are  defended  on  the  ground 
that  they  exercise  the  natural  powers." 

"  The  Italians  love  the  High  Germans, 
whom  they  call  '  Almanni  alti,'  but  not  the 
*  Almanni  bassi,'  i.  e.y  Dutchmen  and  Bel- 
gians, for  they  are  crafty  and  are  worse  than 
the  Italians,  according  to  the  proverb:  *  An 
Italian  German  is  the  devil  incarnate.'  "^ 

On  April  1  (1538),  he  sat  at  home,  speaking 
of  the  rigid  diet  prescribed  by  physicians, 
by  which  many  men  starved  themselves 
to  death.  "  It  is  true,"  said  he,  "  that  good 
diet  is  the  best  medicine  for  anyone  who  can 
stand  it,  but  to  live  hygienically  is  to  live 
miserably."  Then  he  narrated  several  talcs 
of   people   who   had    starved    themselves    to 

'  This  proverb  is  interesting  because  Roger  Ascham  says 
that  he  heard  it  in  Italj'  in  the  16th  century,  but  of  "  Italianatc 
Englishmen." 

[2351 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

death  by  the  advice  of  physicians.  "  I  eat 
what  I  can,  and  die  when  God  wills.  *  Time 
slips  by  and  we  grow  old  with  the  silent 
years. '^  When  I  think  of  my  contemporaries, 
men  of  fifty,  how  thin  their  numbers  are!^ 
Almost  every  thirty  years  brings  a  new  age. 
We  all  belong  to  the  earth,  and  cannot  escape 
from  it." 

"  When  they  crown  an  emperor  at  Trier, 
they  roast  for  him  a  whole  ox,  within  the  ox 
a  pig,  within  the  pig  a  goose,  within  the  goose 
a  fowl,  within  the  fowl  a  bird." 

Said  Luther:  "  Would  that  I  and  all  my 
children  were  dead!  For  things  in  this  world 
are  coming  to  a  strange  state.  Whoever 
shall  live  there,  will  see  that  things  are  con- 
stantly getting  worse.  Therefore  our  Lord 
God  is  now  taking  his  own  away,  and  is 
proving  what  John  the  Baptist  says:  *  His 
fan  he  will  take  in  his  hand.'^  He  is  now 
gathering  his  wheat  into  the  bushel,  and  into 

^Ovid,  Fasti,  vi,  771. 

^The  Dominican,  A.  M.  Weiss:  Luther psychologie  als 
Schlussel  zur  Lutherlegende,  Mainz,  1906,  translated  these 
words  "how  thin  they  are!"  and  added:  "apparently  Luther 
considered  a  barrel-like  figure  as  a  special  beauty,  or  a  great 
blessing,"  p.  188.  P'or  this  he  was  criticized  by  Preserved 
Smith  in  the  American  Historical  Review,  January,  1910, 
p.  369.  The  Jesuit  Grisar  now  admits  that  the  translation 
given  here  is  the  correct  one,  and  that  this  passage  cannot 
be  used  as  a  proof  of  Luther's  gluttony.  Luther^  vol.  ii, 
1911,  p.  246. 

'Matt,  iii,  12. 

1236] 


MISCELLANEOUS 


the  garner,  but  with  the  chaff  he  will  proceed 
in  a  wonderful  manner:  '  He  will  burn  them 
w^ith  unquenchable  fire/  says  the  text. 
That  Is  what  he  did  with  Rome.  First  the 
righteous  people  had  to  die  by  the  sword,  but 
afterwards  he  came  and  smashed  the  govern- 
ment to  pieces,  so  that  people  have  been 
trying,  even  to  the  present  day,  to  patch  up 
the  city,  and  the  pope  too  has  tried,  and  is 
trying  yet,  but  they  are  unable  to  put  it  in 
order  again.  Thus  he  will  proceed  with 
Germany  also,  he  will  take  away  the  upright, 
and  then  make  an  end  of  the  German  land, 
for  it  has  well  deserved  the  punishment  and 
still  continues  its  downward  course.  The 
Margrave^  has  now  dismissed  Alber-  because 
he  wrote  to  him  in  camp  begging  him  not  to 
burden  the  poor  preachers  with  such  heavy 
dues,  for  out  of  their  salary  from  which  they 
must  support  themselves  they  had  to  pay 
various  taxes.  Now  he  must  be  called  a 
disturber  of  the  peace!  In  addition  to  this 
his  own  fellow-citizens  have  hung  a  pair  of 
shoes  on  his  house,  together  with  the  In- 
scription:    'Arise    and    walk! '^     For    such 

^  Joachim  II,  Margrave  of  Brandenburg,  who  had  marched 
in  the  previous  summer  (1542)  into  Hungary  against  the 
Turks. 

'  Erasmus  Albcr,  a  personal  friend  of  Luther. 

'  Matt,  ix,  5. 

[2}7] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

contempt  of  the  divine  word  and  the  minis- 
ters ought  not  God  to  strike  out  with  his 
fists?" 

"  However,  if  we  preachers  got  together 
and  were  united,  as  are  the  papists,  then  we 
would  have  just  as  little  trouble.  But  that 
is  the  worst,  that  the  preachers  themselves 
are  not  a  unit.  Yet  it  would  not  be  good 
and  must  be  as  it  is,  for  it  would  perhaps 
result,  as  it  has  in  the  papacy,  that  the  priests 
would  again  get  control  of  the  government. 
So  it  has  ever  been  from  the  beginning  of  the 
world,  that  the  preachers  themselves  have 
not  been  in  agreement  with  each  other. 
Alas,  young  friends!  There  is  yet  a  sad 
time  coming,  and  you  will  see  it.  Perhaps 
there  may  not  be  very  much  danger  of  it 
yet  for  fifty  years,  on  account  of  our  doctrine, 
since  the  youth  of  the  present  have  been 
educated  therein,  but  after  that  the  people 
must  look  out!  Therefore  no  one  should 
be  afraid  now  of  the  plague,  but  should  only 
be  glad  to  die.  Alas,  why  fear  death?  Since 
Jesus  Christ,  the  son  of  God,  had  to  die,  that 
may  indeed  be  called  death!  Our  death  is 
nothing  in  comparison  with  that.  And  we 
know  also  that  it  does  not  harm  us.  Paul 
says:  *  Christ  died,  and  we  shall  all  die.'  "^ 
» II  Cor.  V,  14. 

[238] 


MISCELLANEOUS 


ti 


The  Lord's  prayer  binds  the  people  to- 
gether and  to  one  another,  in  that  one  prays 
for  the  other  and  with  the  other,  and  therefore 
it  becomes  strong  and  powerful,  so  that  it 
dispels  all  evils  and  even  death  itself." 

When  mention  was  made  of  the  blind 
Bernard  Zettler,  some  one  said:  "  It  is  to 
be  hoped  that  his  wife  will  get  well,  but  he 
might  as  well  be  dead."  Luther  replied: 
"Alas,  we  must  have  the  poor,  the  poor!^ 
Who  knows  whence  we  derive  benefit?  I 
have  also  in  my  house  many  useless  folk. 
God  has  other  thoughts  than  we.  Who  knows 
what  benefit  we  obtain  therefrom?  Lazarus 
lay  also  before  the  door  of  the  rich  man,  and 
perhaps  half  the  country  profited  thereby. 
It  is  God's  will  that  we  have  the  poor  among 
us,  therefore  we  should  support  them,  and  I 
must  see  how  we  can  provide  for  him,  for  he 
is  nevertheless  honest  and  he  prays  gladly 
and  diligently,  and  he  is  training  up  his  chil- 
dren finely." 

"  God  exalts  the  humble,"  said  Schiefer, 
"  Philip  was  born  in  a  peasant's  hut."  Luther 
replied:  "  It  is  God's  pleasure  to  exalt  the 
humble  and  put  down  the  mighty  from  their 
seats.     There  is  no  court  in  which  there  is  not 

^  The  repetition  of  a  word  or  phrase  for  emphasis  is  character- 
istic of  Luther's  familiar  talk. 

[2391 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

some  poor  person,  upon  whose  advice  the 
prince  depends.  Chancellor  Francis  Burkart 
has  precedence  over  all  the  nobles,  and  the 
same  is  true  of  Chancellor  Bruck;  and  I, 
though  born  in  a  country  place,  sometimes 
share  in  the  greatest  councils.  And  consider: 
in  all  Meissen  among  so  many  nobles  there 
are  scarcely  two  who  are  fitted  to  rule!  It 
takes  big  men  to  administer  a  government, 
men  of  noble  talents,  who  do  not  act  as  do  the 
princes  and  bishop  of  Passau.  The  genius 
of  Alexander  was  tried  by  the  cares  of  govern- 
ment. But  God  raises  up  genius  from  the 
common  people.  But  this  is  the  worst, 
that  sometimes  these  humble  folk  learn  to  be 
haughty,  like  Agricola  and  Schenk;  then  the 
devil  is  to  pay  and  their  fall  is  swift." 

When  mention  was  made  of  the  three  sons 
of  the  old  man  Briick,  P  said:  "The  old 
man  was  poor."  "  Very  poor,"  said  the 
doctor,  "  at  first,  but  afterwards  he  left 
Doctor  Gregory  Briick  wealth  amounting  to 
about  4000  gulden.  But  God  is  wont  to 
exalt  the  sons  of  paupers,  as  he  has  brought 
even  me,  the  son  of  extremely  poor  parents, 
to  this  position."     Behold  the  life  of  Luther! 

"  If  you  would  learn  how  to  conquer  the 
greatest,  most  dreadful  and  shameless  ene- 

^Mathesius,  1540. 

[240] 


MISCELLANEOUS 


mies,  that  otherwise  might  overwhelm  you 
and  do  you  harm  in  both  body  and  soul,  and 
against  whom  you  would  need  to  buy  all 
kinds  of  arms  and  pay  out  all  your  money  to 
learn  to  use  them;  then  know  there  is  a  sweet, 
lovely  little  herb,  whose  name  is  Patience. 
Yes,  you  will  say,  but  how  can  I  find  this 
medicine?  The  answer  is  this:  Take  for 
yourself  the  faith  that  no  one  can  harm  you, 
except  it  be  the  will  of  God!  But  should  you 
suffer  harm,  it  will  result  from  the  friendly, 
gracious  will  of  God  in  such  a  way  that  the 
enemy  will  do  a  thousand  times  more  harm 
to  himself  than  to  you;  whence  arises  the 
love  which  says:  Therefore  will  I  do  him  good 
in  return  for  evil,  and  heap  coals  of  fire  on 
his  neck.  These  are  the  arms  with  which  we 
win  over  the  enemies  that  seem  like  great 
mountains,  which  do  not  rush  upon  us  and 
are  not  to  be  overcome  by  iron  and  steel. 
Love  teaches  us  patience." 

"  Things^  are  our  teachers.  He  who  does 
not  know  things,  is  unable  to  draw  forth  the 
sense  from  words.  Wherefore  Miinster^  often 
errs,  since  he  does  not  know  things.  I  have 
explained  more  texts  through  the  knowledge 

^  The  Latin  word  translated  things  throughout  this  passage 
is  rfs,  which  has  a  wide  variety  of  meanings. 

-  Sebastian  Miinster  issued  a  translation  of  the  Bible  in 
1534. 

1241] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

of  things,  than  through  the  knowledge  of 
grammar.  If  lawyers  did  not  know  things, 
no  one  would  understand  their  words.  Where- 
fore it  is  the  study  of  things  that  achieves 
results." 

"  I  am  able  to  write  letters,  but  not  in  a 
Ciceronian  and  oratorical  style,  as  Agricola 
does;  but  I  have  substance,  although  Latin 
words  and  elegance  fail  me." 

He  consoled  a  woman  named  Selmenitz, 
when  she  was  ill,  as  follows :  "  We  have  waited 
much  too  long,  when  we  first  seek  to  know 
Christ  in  the  last  hour  of  need.  He  came  to 
us  in  baptism  and  has  remained  with  us,  and 
has  made  us  a  fine  bridge  upon  which  we 
may  go  from  this  life  through  death  to  the  life 
beyond.  That  you  ought  certainly  to  believe!" 

"  Aside  from  man  no  being  cries  except 
the  dog  and  the  crocodile;  and  the  latter  for 
the  most  part  only  makes  believe.  Tears 
are  born  in  the  heart,  and  ascend  to  the  eyes, 
since  when  one  weeps,  the  whole  heart  is 
moved." 

"  Jerome^  wishes  to  make  much  of  his  old 
sciences,  but  we  of  today  are  much  wiser. 
If  your  son^  were  twenty  years  old,  I  could 

*  Jerome  Schurff,  an  eminent  jurist  and  colleague  of  Luther. 
See  Koestlin,  Martin  Luther,  sein  Leben  und  seine  Schriften^^ 
1903,  Bd.  ii,  S.  468-471,  or  Luther's  Correspondence,  i,  p.  543. 

2  The  son  of  Justus  Jonas,  aged  14. 

[242] 


MISCELLANEOUS 


teach  him  in  three  hours  the  whole  vocabulary 
of  the  Sophists,^  together  with  the  thought. 
It  has  cost  us  a  great  deal  to  learn  those 
things  thoroughly,  but  today  many  things  in 
addition  can  be  learned  from  the  dialectic 
of  Melanchthon." 

"  This  book  should  not  be  called  Terence, 
but  the  comedies  of  Scipio  and  Laelius,* 
for  an  African  could  not  speak  such  pure 
Latin,  nor  could  a  man  not  well  versed  in 
affairs  express  such  opinions.  But  Laelius 
and  Scipio  were  trained  in  wars,  politics  and 
household  affairs;  they  were  able  to  express 
weighty  judgments.  And  if  there  were  not  so 
many  wise  sayings  in  the  works  of  Terence, 
they  would  have  perished  long  ago.  Hans 
Metzsch^  is  portrayed  in  Thraso,  and  in  that 
scene  where  Thraso  stormed  the  castle  of 
Thais,*  Scipio^  ridiculed  those  soldiers  who 
boast  at  home,  but  when  it  comes  to  real 
fighting  are  worthless.  I  delight  greatly  in 
the  plays  of  Terence,  and  read  in  his  works 
every  night." 

*  By  Sophists  Luther  meant  the  Schoolmen. 

'Modern  scholars  give  little  weight  to  the  old  charge  made 
by  Terence's  rivals,  that  he  had  been  assisted  in  the  writing 
of  his  plays  by  his  friends  Scipio  and  Laelius.  In  the  prologue 
to  the  Adelphi  he  alludes  to  the  charge,  but  says  that  he  re- 
gards it  as  complimentary  to  himself. 

*  Bailiff  of  Wittenberg,  see  supra  p.  46. 

*  Terence,  Eunuchus,  Act  iv,  Scene  7. 

*  Scipio  assumed  as  author  of  Terence's  plays. 

1243] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

"  I  have  three  bad  dogs:  ingratitude,  pride, 
envy.  Whom  the  three  dogs  bite,  is  very 
sorely  bitten." 

"  It  is  evident  that  the  stars  were  not 
created  in  vain,  for  they  mark  the  seasons, 
years,  months,  days  and  nights,  and  they 
protect  the  crops.  But  we  neglect  the  certain 
uses  of  the  stars  and  seek  uncertain  ones. 
So  it  goes  with  those  who  add  to  or  take  from 
the  Word  of  God." 

Some  one  said:  "Doctor,  miners  give 
liberally,  but  they  have  this  vice:  on  Sundays 
and  Saturdays  they  get  drunk."  Luther 
replied:  "  Miners  of  course  ought  not  to  do 
that,  but  if  they  are  diligent  the  other  days, 
one  must  allow  them  something.  One  must 
not  bluntly  refuse  them,  or  they  would  be- 
come still  more  unruly.  Their  work  is  very 
severe  and  accompanied  by  extreme  danger, 
and  the  climate  should  be  considered.  I 
drink  too,  but  not  every  one  should  imitate 
me,  for  all  do  not  bear  my  labors.  If  there- 
fore the  miners  hear  the  morning  sermon  and 
pray,  then  in  view  of  their  labors  and  customs 
one  should  not  notice  their  absence  from  the 
afternoon  service." 

"  The  world  has  not  existed  long;  if  people 
had  lived  as  long  as  Adam,  six  generations 
would    have    reached    to    the   present.     But 

[244] 


MISCELLANEOUS 


before  God  the  time  has  been  still  shorter, 
for  in  his  sight  a  thousand  years  are  but  as 
one  day."^ 

"  The  world's  history  I  divide  into  six 
ages:  the  ages  of  Adam,  Noah,  Abraham, 
David,  Christ  and  the  pope.  Each  of  the 
first  five  lasted  approximately  a  thousand 
years.  The  age  of  the  pope  may  be  reckoned 
as  beginning  about  5000  years  after  the  crea- 
tion of  the  world,  that  is,  when  Hildebrand- 
publicly  forbade  the  marriage  of  priests  under 
Henry  IV.  At  that  time  St.  Bernard  was 
born.  But  the  pope  will  not  complete  his 
millennium." 

"  This  life  is  preliminary  to  the  future  life. 
But  if  God  adorns  with  such  innumerable 
gifts  this  mean,  corrupt  life,  what  will  he  do 
for  the  future  life,  when  sin  will  cease  and 
eternal  justice  flourish.^  " 

"  It  is  strange  that  men  are  so  heedless  and 
arrogant,  when  there  are  on  every  hand  such 
a  multitude  of  reasons  for  being  humble. 
The  hour  of  death  is  uncertain,  nor  is  the  food 
we  eat  within  our  control,  nor  the  sun  and 
air  by  which  we  live,  nor  the  day,  nor  sleep, 
to  say  nothing  of  spiritual  things,  such  as  the 
public  and  private  sins  by  which  wc  arc  op- 


^  Ps.  xc,  4. 

«  Pope  as  Gregory  \'1I,  1073-10S5. 

1245] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

pressed.  But  our  hearts  are  adamantine, 
without  a  care  for  anything." 

Luther  told  of  the  avarice  of  a  certain 
woman,  who,  since  she  feared  that  the  end  of 
the  world  prophesied  by  StieffeF  was  at  hand 
scattered  her  money  about  in  her  room,  say- 
ing: "  You  cursed  mammon,  you  shall  not 
be  my  master!  "  Afterwards,  when  the  day 
fixed  by  Stieffel  had  come  and  gone,  she 
gathered  up  the  money  and  hid  it  again,  and 
gave  not  a  penny  to  help  the  poorest  person. 

"  A  man  once  hired  an  ass  to  ride.  The 
owner  of  the  ass  went  on  foot  alongside  the 
rider.  But  when  it  became  too  hot  upon  the 
ass  for  the  rider,  he  requested  the  other  to 
ride,  while  he  himself  walked  in  the  shade 
alongside.  This  the  master  of  the  ass  would 
not  permit,  for  he  had  rented  him  the  ass  to 
ride,  and  not  its  shade;  for  the  latter  he  must 
pay  extra.  This  is  a  picture  of  the  world, 
which  gives  nothing  gratis  to  any  one,  not 
even  a  shady  place." 

On  the  day  of  Pentecost  in  the  year  1540 
Luther  said  at  table:  "  I  am  now  an  old 
preacher,  and  have  preached  for  twenty- 
eight  years,  ordinarily  three  times  a  Sunday, 
and  once  four  times,   when  Duke  Frederic 

^  Michael  Stieffel,  pastor  In  Lochau,  had  prophesied  that 
the  world  would  come  to  an  end  on  a  certain  day  in  1533, 
See  Tischreden,  Weimar  Ed.  Ill,  290. 

[246] 


MISCELLANEOUS 


was  here."  And  to  the  same  one  he  added: 
"  For  we  young  preachers  are  learned;  God 
has  given  me  moreover  strength,  otherwise  I 
had  not  endured  such  great  labors." 

"  I  am  able  to  boast  that  I  am  not  so  bad 
and  angry  towards  any  one  as  to  wish  him 
the  eternal  wrath  of  God,  not  even  the  bishop 
of  Mainz,  whom  I  have  hated  as  being  of  all 
living  persons  most  thoroughly  a  sceptic. 
I  have  not  been  so  hostile  to  the  Duke  of 
Brunswick  and  Duke  George.  But  they  do 
not  fear  the  wrath  of  God.  Wherefore  he  is 
in  no  haste  to  punish  them." 

Luther  said:  "  I  intend  to  write  sometime 
concerning  the  vices  of  all  the  countries. 
To  the  Germans  I  will  assign  drunkenness, 
to  the  Italians,  deceitfulness,  for  they  now 
surpass  the  Greeks  with  their  lies."  Melanch- 
thon  replied:  "Almost  all  princes  think 
nowadays  that  it  is  wise  to  resort  to  devious 
ways  and  practices,  nor  do  the  majority  think 
it  wrong  for  the  great  to  resort  to  deception. 
But  in  regard  to  the  Germans  being  fond  of 
drink,  there  are  two  reasons  for  that:  L  They 
are  intemperate  on  account  of  the  coldness  of 
the  climate;  wherefore  the  farther  north  men 
live,  the  more  they  drink.  2.  The  Germans 
are  sociable.  This  causes  them  to  indulge 
in  the  cup.     Italy  has  no  social  clubs." 

[2471 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

To  Robert  Barnes^  Luther  said :  "  You 
English  have  no  wolves,  because  you  are 
wolves  yourselves." 

"  A  child  of  seven  years  dies  most  joyfully 
without  fear  of  death,  but  as  soon  as  we  adults 
feel  ill,  the  sense  of  death  and  of  hell  begins, 
and  we  tremble  at  the  thought  of  dying." 

Luther,  admiring  the  fruitfulness  of  the 
season,  said:  "Ah,  who  gives  thanks  for 
such  great  blessings.^  Our  whole  life  ought 
to  be  nothing  else  but  the  praise  of  God. 
For  what  is  life,  without  the  praise  of 
God.?" 

"  My  adversaries  have  made  me  learned. 
I  cannot  repay  Eck  for  what  he  has  taught 
me,  and  the  pope  cannot  punish  him  enough, 
for  he  ruined  his  cause.  If  I  were  the  pope, 
I  would  give  Eck  a  cardinal's  hat  and  then 
burn  him." 

The  doctor  said:  "  Agricola,  the  poor  little 
man!  What  a  pest  is  vainglory!  I  am  only 
sorry  for  his  wife  and  children.  He  wishes 
to  be  considered  more  learned  than  Master 
Philip  and  I,  and  we  are  not  able  to  yield  to 
him.  He  regards  Bugenhagen  as  beneath 
him,  but  Bugenhagen  is  a  great  theologian, 
and   has    much   energy.     Doctor   Creutziger 

^  An  English  Lutheran,  originally  an  "Augustinian  who  had 
studied  at  Oxford,  wlio  spent  much  time  at  Wittenberg.  He 
was  martyred  by  Henry  VHI  in  1540. 

f  248  1 


MISCELLANEOUS 


was  always  more  learned  than  Agricola,  and 
is  a  distinguished  theologian." 

Said  Luther:  "  How  I  do  hate  people  who 
lug  in  so  many  languages  as  Zwingli  does; 
he  spoke  Greek  and  Hebrew  in  the  pulpit 
at  Marburg!  "  Schiefer  added:  "  Hofmann 
at  Jena  does  the  same;  he  wrote  eight  books 
and  hardly  one  is  of  any  value/'^  "  Philip 
was  against  him,"  remarked  Luther. 

Martin^,  a  certain  small  man  from  Strass- 
burg,  not  only  compared  Luther  with  the 
Apostles,  but  considered  him  in  some  ways 
superior  to  them.  When  told  of  this  by 
Jonas, ^  the  doctor  replied:  "O  no!  The 
Apostles  were  great,  holy  men.  If  God  only 
permits  me  to  be  his  fire-tender  and  stand 
behind  the  door!  And  I  am  not  that  yet 
by  far." 

Mention  having  been  made  of  Scipio, 
Schiefer  said:  *' We  ought  to  have  such  a 
leader  against  the  Turks!"  The  Doctor 
replied:  "  If  we  only  had  Abraham!  He 
could  send  4000  angels  in  advance,  as  when 
he  killed  four  kings  with  the  aid  of  his  ser- 
vants.^    Ah,  he  was  a  great  man  and  God's 

^  Reading  prodest  for  prodiit. 
^Cellarius;  cj.  supra,  p.  233. 

'Justus  Jonas,  a  teacher  at  Wittenberg,  a  friend  and  fre- 
quent table-companion  of  Luther. 
*  Gen.  xiv. 

1249] 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 

good  friend.  He  trusted  God  well,  so  God 
stood  honorably  by  him,  although  he  had 
nothing  of  his  own,  and  with  so  many  people 
and  cattle  had  to  go  upon  other  people's 
territory,  like  the  ox-drivers." 

"  It  is  my  firm  belief  that  the  angels  are 
getting  ready,  putting  on  their  armor  and 
girding  their  swords  about  them,  for  the  last 
day  is  already  breaking,  and  the  angels  are 
preparing  for  the  battle,  when  they  will 
overthrow  the  Turks  and  hurl  them,  along 
with  the  pope,  to  the  bottom  of  hell." 

"  The  world  will  perish  shortly.  Among 
us  there  is  the  greatest  ingratitude  and  con- 
tempt for  the  Word,  among  the  papists  there 
is  slaughter  and  blasphemy.  That  will  knock 
the  bottom  out  of  the  barrel. 'H 

"  As  things  are  beginning  to  go,  the  last 
day  is  at  the  door,  and  I  believe  that  the  world 
will  not  endure  a  hundred  years.  For  the 
light  of  the  gospel  is  now  dawning.  That  day 
will  follow  with  thunder  and  lightning,  for 
the  voice  of  the  Lord  and  of  the  trumpet 
are  conveyed  in  the  thunder.  It  will  come 
from  the  east,  and  the  earth  will  be  severely 
shaken  by  the  crash  with  such  horror,  that 
men  will  die  of  fear." 

-*  I  believe  that  the  last  day  is  not  far  off, 
for  this  reason:  the  gospel  is  now  making  its 

[250] 


MISCELLANEOUS 


last  effort,  and  it  Is  just  the  same  as  with  a 
light  which,  when  it  is  about  to  go  out,  gives 
forth  a  great  flash  at  the  end  as  if  it  intended 
to  burn  a  long  time  yet,  and  then  it  is  gone. 
So  it  appears  to  be  in  the  case  of  the  gospel, 
which  seems  on  the  point  of  widely  extending 
itself,  but  I  fear  that  it  also  will  go  out  in  a 
flash,  and  that  the  last  day  will  then  be  at 
hand.  It  is  just  so  with  a  sick  man:  when 
he  is  about  to  die  he  often  appears  most 
refreshed,  and  in  a  trice  he  has  departed.'' 


[251 


CONVERSATIONS  WITH  LUTHER 


BIBLIOGRAPHICAL  NOTE. 

D.  Martin  Luthers  Werke,  kritische 
Gesamtausgabe.  Weimar.  1883ff.  Tischre- 
den,  vols,  i,  ii  and  iii,  1912ff,  edited  by  Ernst 
Kroker.  (In  course  of  publication;  Volume 
i  contains  notes  of  Dietrich  and  Medler, 
153 Iff;  volume  ii,  contains  notes  of  Schlag- 
inhaufen,  1531-2,  of  Rabe,  1532,  and  of 
Cordatus,  153 Iff;  volume  iii,  contains  notes 
by  Cordatus,  Weller  and  Lauterbach,  1531- 
8.) 

M.  Anton  Lauterbachs  Tagebuch  auf 
DAS  Jahr  1538,  herausgegeben  von  J.  K. 
Seidemann.     Dresden,  1872. 

Luthers  Tischreden  in  der  Mathesi- 
SCHEN  Sammlung,  herausgegeben  von  Ernst 
Kroker.  Leipzig,  1903.  (Contains  notes  by 
Mathesius,  1540,  Heydenreich,  1542-3,  Be- 
sold,   1544,  Lauterbach,   1539.) 

D.  Martini  Lutiieri  Colloquia,  edita 
ab  H.  E.  Bindseil.  Lemgoviae  et  Detmold- 
iae,  1863-6.  Three  volumes.  (Lauterbach' s 
edition  of  the  table  talk.) 

D.  Martin  Luthers  Tischreden,  heraus- 
gegeben von  K.  E.  Forstemann  und  H.  E. 
Bindseil.  Berlin,  1844-8.  Four  volumes. 
(Aurifaber's  edition  of  the  table  talk.) 

[252] 


BIBLIOGRAPHICAL  NOTE 


Luther's  Table  Talk,  a  critical  study, 
by  Preserved  Smith.  New  York,  Columbia 
University  Press,  1907.  (Macmillan  Co., 
agents.) 

Life  and  Letters  of  Martin  Luther, 
by  Preserved  Smith.  Second  edition,  Bos- 
ton, 1914. 

Luther's  Correspondence  and  Other 
Contemporary  Letters,  translated  and 
edited  by  Preserved  Smith.  Volume  i,  Phila- 
delphia, 1913. 


25.^ 


INDEX 

Abimelech,  King,  185.  Bible,  the,  6.  7,  9-11,  36,  68,  86. 

Abraham,  92,  101,  123,  185,  208,  103,   106,   136,   175{.;  the  Ger- 

249.  man,  178. 

Adam,  55,  60,  92,  173,  214-217;  Bitterfeld,  80. 

fall  of.  61.  Bohemians,  the,  199,  234. 

Africa,  231.  Bonaventura,  192. 

Agricola,  J.,  "Grickel,"   22,    160,  Books,  great  number  of,  201. 

181,  198,  206,  240,  242,  248.  Bora,  Hans  von,  83. 

Alber,  Erasmus,  237.  Bora,  Magdalene  von,  48. 

Albert,     Archbishop     of     Mainz,  Boys  and  girls  compared,  48. 

xiii,  36,  37,  72,  74,  75,  78,  80,  Brandenburg,    Margrave    of,    72, 

84,  87,  247.  237;  Bishop  of,  188. 

Alexander,  86,  240.  Breitenbach,  160. 

Altenburg.  31,  163.  Brenz,  J.,  22,  179. 

Ambrosius,  111.  Bruck,  G.,  21,  51,  76,  91,  240. 

Amsdorf,  N.,  19, 22.  Brunswicker,       the       (Duke      of 

Anabaptists,    10,    144,    153,    159,  Brunswick),  78,  84. 

197,  206.  Bucer,  M.,  33,  37,  49. 

Anger  as  a  tonic,  187.  Bugenhagen,   142,   164,   188,   189, 

Anhalt,  Prince  of,  230.  193,  207,  211,  231,  248. 

Annas,  45.  Burkart,  Francis,  240. 
Anthony  of  Schoenberg,  84. 

Antichrist,  149.  Caesar,  229. 

Antioch,  21.  Caiaphas,  45,  83. 

Apostles,  the,  221,  233,  249.  Cajetan,  17,  25,  29. 

Aquinas,  11.  Campanus,  xvii,  40. 

Ari*totle,  11.  118-120,  192.  Campegeio,  17,  143. 

Arrogance,  134,  245.  Canon  law,  the,  146,  178. 

Asia,  231.  Canterbury,  monks  of,  82. 

Astrology,  lOlf.,  117,  202.  Capua,  Archbishop  of,  84. 

Astronomy,  lOlf.  Carlowitz,  76,  77. 

Augsburg,    17,    19;   Luther's  con-  Carlstadt,    xvii,    10,    38,    39,    114, 

ference  with  Cajetan  at,  25,  28,  144,  181,  194. 

33;    Luther's   return   from,   29;  Catharine,  St.,  228. 

Diet  of,  in  1530,  85,  148.  Celibacy  of  the  clergy,  145,  152. 

Augustine,    111,    117,     126,    134,  Cellarius,  Martin.  233,  249. 

206,  228.  Charles  V,  German  Emperor,  80, 

Augustinians,  the,  152.  86. 

Avarice,  144,  246.  Children,  1,  3,  46-48,  57,  90,  248. 

Christians,   their  greatest   battle. 

Baptism,  142.  175,  176.  21.'?.  205-206. 

Barbarossa,  148.  Christmas,  47. 

Barnes,  Robert,  85,  248.  Church,  the,  96.  226. 

Bavaria,  Duke  of,  98.  Cicero.  61,  109,  118,119.  120.  194. 

Beggars,  220.  Clement  VII,  Pope,  70,  81,  138. 

Belgians,  the,  235.  Coburg,  xi,  14. 

Bembo,  P.,  17.  Cochlaeus,  33,  35,  115. 

Benedictines,  the,  152.  Coelius.  56. 

Benjamin.  56.  COlln.  66. 

Bernard,  St.,  245.  Cologne,  106. 

Besold,  J.,  liv,  68.  Colossians,    Melanchlbon'i    cora- 

Bctbsaida,  194.  mentary  on,  204. 

I  255  J 


INDEX 


Comets,  102. 

Common  people,  the,  127,  192, 
240. 

Commonplaces,  Melanchthon'$, 
204. 

Confession,  222,  223;  of  Augs- 
burg. 204. 

Constance,  Council  of,  142;  city 
of,  197. 

Constantinople,  21. 

Copernicus,  xvii,  104. 

Corbianus,  223. 

Cordatus,  x,  xxiv,  66,  192,  234. 

Corpus  juris,  6. 

Cranach,  Lucas,  232;  the  younger. 
62. 

Creation,  152;  meaning  of,  183. 

Creed,  the,  176. 

Creutziger,  248. 

Cromwell,  Thomas,  79. 

Crucifixion,  the,  185. 

Cruciger,  76. 

Dabrun,  91. 
Damned,  the,  231. 
Daniel,  200. 

David,  76,  81,  98-100,  208. 
Day,  the  last,  251. 
Death,  fear  of,  238. 
Decalogue,  the,  176. 
Demea,  3. 
Demons,  158. 
Demosthenes,  61,  184. 
Deuteronomy,  178. 
Devil,  see  Satan. 
Devils,  133,  134. 
Diet,  235. 

Dietrich,  Veit,  xi,  67,  94. 
Doctrine,  the  importance  of.  197. 
Dogs,  71,  244. 
Dominicans,  the,  151. 
Donatists,  the,  206. 
Donatus,  2. 
Dreams,  161,  162. 
Dresden,  66. 

Drunkenness     among     the     Ger- 
mans, 49,  72,  99,  234,  244,  247. 
Dutchmen,  the,  235. 

Ecclesiasticus,  178. 

Eck,  J.,  of  Trier,  35. 

Kck,  J.,  of  Ingolsiadt,  147,  248. 

Eclipses,  103,  104. 

Education,  3. 

Egranus,  112,  113. 

F^gypt,  229. 

Eisenach,  227. 

Eisleben,  20. 

Elbe,  202. 

Elisha.  208,  218. 

I 


Elizabeth,  Luther's  daughter,  tx. 

Elizabeth,  wife  of  Dr.  Cruciger. 
217. 

Elizabeth,  the  mother  of  John 
the  Baptist,  56. 

Elsa,  mistress  of  the  Archbishop 
of  Mainz,  74,  75. 

Engagements,  clandestine,  223. 

England,  opinion  there  concern- 
ing the  Wittenberg  reformers, 
82;  King  of,  77,  85,  203. 

Epicureanism  (skepticism),  112, 
118. 

Epicureans,  140. 

Epicurus,  120,  233. 

Erasmus,  105,  106,  108,  109,  110, 
HI,  112,  114,  228;  his  Collo- 
quies, Catechism  and  Mis- 
cellany,  107;  his  Praise  of 
Folly  and  Julius,  108;  his 
Hyperaspistes,  110;  his  New 
Testament,  111. 

Erfurt,  5,  12,  13,  33;  population 
of,  19. 

Esthland,  233. 

Eusebius,  228. 

Eutzsch,  5. 

Eve,  60. 

Evil,  problem  of,  116,  117. 

Excommunication,  145. 

Exodus,  the,  50. 

Ezekiel,  7,  229. 

Faber,  J.,  86. 

Faith,  12;  of  younger  people,  57; 

aided  by  reason,  115;  nature  of, 

121. 
Ferdinand,  King  of  Hungarv,  70, 

86,  98,  138,  169. 
Fleck,  24. 

Fornicators,  157,  167. 
Forster,  192. 
France,  29;  King  of,  71,  81,  86, 

139. 
Franciscans,  the,  151,  152,  155. 
Frederic    II,    German    Emperor, 

148. 
Frederic,   Elector  of  Saxony,  29, 

31,53,  79,93,98,  106. 
Friars,  the,  146. 
Future  life,  the,  89,  117,  122,  245. 

Galatian.s.  178,  179. 

Games,  235;  gymnastic,  99. 

Genesis,  62,  182. 

George,  Duke  of  Alberlinc 
Saxony,  36,  66,  70,  71,  83,  87, 
98,  106,  116,  120,  169,  247. 

Germans,  the,  85,  199,  247. 

Germany,  26,  29,  32.  86.  87,  161, 
199,  237. 
256  1 


INDEX 


Gcrson,  27. 

Giebichenstcin,  the,  74. 

Giles  of  Viterbo,  18. 

(jjapion,  33,  36,  37. 

Glory,  love  of.  194. 

God,  existence  of,  106.  107.  117 
118;  wisdom  of.  114;  commands 
and  promises  of,  127;  "  riglu- 
eousness"  of,  88,  129,  130,  131; 
hidden  treasures  of.  154;  gifts 
of  42.  92.  168f.;  our  di-strusi  of. 
172;  omnipotence  of,  183; 
anger  of,  214,  232;  praise  of, 
,  248. 

Greeks,  the,  182,  247;  their  love 
of  progeny,  56. 

Greek  language,  the,  193,  249. 

Hagcnau,  85. 

Hebrews,  the.  101,  182. 

Hebrew    tongue,    the,    181,    193, 

249. 
Hell.  16,  46.  124. 
Henry  VIII,  viii,  79,  203. 
Henry,        Duke       of       Alberlinc 

Sa.xony,  84. 
Henry  IV,  245. 
Heretics.  102.  122,  181,  205f. 
Hesse,  Landgrave  of,  78,  98. 
Heydenrcich,    Caspar,    .\iv,    xx'w, 

67. 
Hildebrand,    Pope    Gregory    VII, 

245. 
Hofmann.  249. 
Homer,  175. 
Humanists,  105f. 
Humble,  the,  239. 
Humility,  181. 
Hungary.  186. 
Huss,  xviii,  197f. 

Image  of  Christ,  moved  bv  cords, 

82. 
Immortaiitv,  discussion  of.  139f. 
Indulgences,  9.  24.  141. 
Infants  saved  by  faitli  alone,  128. 
Isaac,  92. 
Isaiah,  200. 
Italians,  the,  235,  247. 

James,  St.,  shrine  of.  114. 

Jeremiah.  200. 

Jerome  of  Prague,  197. 

Jerome,  St..  182.  227.  22.<;. 

Jesus  Christ,  16,  19,  75,  127,  136, 

142.    143.    147.    151.    154.    156. 

157.  171.  180.  195,  221. 
Jews,  the,  176,  183,  185;  marriage 

among.  56. 
Joachim  of  Brandenburg,  120. 


John,  the  Baptist,  236. 

John,  the  gospel  of,  179. 

John,  Elector  of  Saxony,  79,  232. 

John  Ernest,  Duke,  43. 

John  Frederic,  Elector  of  Saxony. 

50.  72.  73. 
Jonas.  J..  44,  67,   152.   185.   190. 

193. 
Joshua,  104. 
Judas,  8,  183,  184,  209. 
Judith.  176. 
Julius  II.  139. 
Justification.   12,   126f..   131.    132, 

134,  142.  207. 
Justice  of  God,  the.  110. 

Kahla.  38. 

Katie      (Catharine     von      Bora). 

Luther's  wife,  viii,  ix,  x,  11,  60, 

92.  123.  170,  188.  203. 
Kaufmann.  Geo.,  49. 

Laelius.  243. 

Lamenit,  Anna,  19. 

Lalcran  Council,  the,  140. 

Latin  language,  the,  201. 

Latins,  the,  182. 

Lautcrbach,  A.,  xii,  44,  59,  67. 
167. 

Law,  the  canon,  sec  Canon. 

Lawyers,  126,  230.  233,  242. 

Lazarus,  239. 

Legends  of  the  Saints,  228. 

Leo  X,  140. 

Lichtenbcrg.  93. 

Lies.  208f..  229. 

Lindener,  C.  44. 

Link,  W.,  146. 

Lisk,  74. 

Lombard's  Sentences,  149. 

London,  82. 

Lord's  Supper,  see  Supper. 

Ix)ier,  J.,  44. 

Lucian.  109,  110. 

Lund,  .\rchbishop  of,  160. 

Lupus,  2. 

Luther,  Hans,  ix,  1,  41,  42. 

Luther,  Magdalene,  ix.  47,  57. 

Luther.  Margaret,  ix,  212. 

Luther,  Martin  (sec  table  of  con- 
tents), illnesses  of,  4.  13,  58,  59. 
149.  150;  meets  with  an  acci- 
dent, 5;  first  acquaintance  with 
the  Bible,  6.  ]0;  consoled  by- 
Staupitz.  21;  salary  of.  55, 
children  of.  57;  inheritance  of 
65;  conduct  of,  in  peasant*, 
revolt.  95;  opinion  of  Krasmu*. 
107;  vehemence  of.  200.  201 
213;  worries  of.  234:  labors  of, 
247. 


INDEX 


Luther,   Martin,   son  of  the  Re- 
former, IX,  43. 
Luther,  Paul,  43. 
Lyra,  N.  de,  7. 

Maccabees  H,  182. 

Magistracy,  the,  90. 

Mainz,  Archbishop  of,  see  Albert. 

Major,  G.,  192. 

Manichaeans,  the  error  of  the, 
116. 

Mansfeld,  56. 

Marburg,  249. 

Marriage,  41,  46,  63;  advice  as  to, 
54;  among  the  Jews,  56;  ad- 
vantages of,  59,  60;  man  and 
wife  one  body,  60;  matrimonial 
cases,  61,  163;  married  life  of 
Adam  and  Eve,  62;  ordained  by 
God,  55,  145;  spiritual  marriage 
with  Christ,  151;  without  re- 
ligious ceremonies,  224. 

Mary,  mother  of  Jesus,  appealed 
to  by  Luther,  5. 

Mary,  Queen  of  Hungary,  58. 

Mass,  the,  8,  13,  24,  141-3,  145, 
148.  156,  210,  217. 

Maugis.  Ferdinand  A.,  68. 

Maurice,  Duke  of  Albertine 
Saxony,  76,  11 . 

Mauzzim,  145. 

Maxentius,  228. 

Maximius,  228. 

Medicine,  the  best,  58. 

Medler,  N.,  195. 

Meissen,  !(>,  240. 

Melanchthon,  P.,  44,  57,  (^S,  67, 
76,  78,  86,  92,  108,  111,  170, 
181,  193,  200f.,  229,  232,  243. 

Metzsch,  Hans,  46,  243. 

Miltitz,  C.  von,  29. 

Miners,  244. 

Minckewitz,  50. 

Misers,  51. 

Mohammed,  148. 

Money,  52,  176. 

Monheim,  29. 

Moniana,  H.,  223. 

Monks,  126,  15 If.;  anecdote  of 
dying  monk,  133;  anecdote  of 
monk  deceived  by  the  devil, 
157. 

More,  Sir  Thomas,  viii,  83. 

Morlin,  55,  195. 

Moses,  12,  103,  126,  127. 

Mothers-in-law,  227. 

Munster,  Sebastian,  241. 

Munzer,  T.,  10,  40,  144,  181,  194. 

Music,  98f. 

Mutian,  C,  xvii,  105. 

I 


Naaman,  218. 

Nature,  human,  119,  124. 

Noah,  92;  drunkenness  of,  234. 

Nuns,  153. 

Nuremberg,  19,  199. 

Occam,  192. 

Oecolampadius,  14,  114,  194,  230. 

Origen,  116. 

Ovid,  50,  62. 

Paceus,  219. 

Pagans,  the  philosophy  of,  114f. 

Pantheon,  the,  16. 

Papacy,  the,  9,  16,  52,  II,  138f. 

Papinian,  75. 

Papists,  the,  141,203. 

Paradise,  92,  122. 

Passau,  240. 

Patience,  241. 

Paul,  St.,  11.  12,  16,  61,  102,  111, 

181,  184,  210,  211. 
Pavia,  71. 
Peasants,    the,    xvii,   90f.;    revolt 

of,  95. 
Perknowsky,       Ignatius,       "Hy- 

neck,"  218. 
Peter,  45,  144,  194. 
Pfeffinger,  26. 
Pharoah,  50. 

Philip,  Landgrave  of  Hesse,  72. 
Philosophy,  114f.,  120.  124. 
Physicians,  102. 
Pilgrimages,  143,  167. 
Pistorius  (Pistoria),  Id,  11. 
Plague,  the,  212. 
Planets,  103. 

Plato,  Geo.,  xiv.  68,  117,  192. 
Plautus,  6. 
Poliphcmus,  86. 
Pollich,  Dr.,  20. 
Polner,  188. 

Poor  people  who  marry,  55. 
Poor,  the,  239,  240. 
Pope,  the,  10,  11,  26,  27,  31,  34, 

112,  138,  139,  149,  152. 
Poverty    51. 
Prayer    13,  76,  88,  106,  122;  the 

Lord's,  96,  139,  176,  239. 
Preachers     and     preaching,     158, 

165,  166.  176,  187f. 
Predestination,  135f. 
Priesthood  among  the  Jews,  223. 
Proles,  228. 
Proud,  the,  180. 
Psaltery,  the,  11,  12,  177. 
Pucher,  73. 
Pyrrhus,  86. 

Questions  asked  Luther,  212f. 
258  J 


INDEX 


Ratisbon,  Diet  of,  70,  71. 

Reason,  114f. 

Rcissenbusch,  W.,  99. 

Remige,  81. 

Resolutions,  27. 

Resurrection,  the,  179. 

Rhegius,  22. 

Roman  Empire,  the,  71. 

Romans,  the,  186;  epistle  to,  11, 
178. 

Rome,  9;  Luther's  journey  to,  16, 
17,  77;  population  of,  19;  sack 
of,  139;  the  place  of  avarice, 
143;  superstition  of,  144; 
meeting-place  of  the  wisest 
men,  195;  punished  by  God, 
237. 

Rorer,  xiv,  68,  192. 

Rose,  the  golden  papal,  31. 

Sacrament,  definition  of,  233. 

Sacramentarians,  the,  112. 

Safe  conduct  granted  to  a  heretic, 

142. 
Salvation,  why  all  are  not  saved, 

214. 
Sarah,  185,  208. 
Satan,  19.  38,  45.  46,  55.  62.  75, 

79,  98.  117,  136,  138,  146.  154, 

156f..  165f..  184,  194,  214. 
Saul,  194. 
Saxony,  29,  77. 
Schadewald,  212. 
Schenitz.  J.,  74.  75. 
Schiefer,   68,   85.    106,    162,    197, 

203,  204. 
Schenk,  J.  "Jeckel,"  22,  240. 
Schlaginhaufen,   J.,    xii,   67,    210, 

213. 
Schmalkalden,  150,  202. 
Schneidewein.  81. 
Schools.  96f. 
Schurff,  J.,  34,  35.  242. 
Sripio,  86.  249. 
Scotus,  11,  192.  228. 
Scripture,  see  Bible. 
Scythians,  233. 
Selmenitz,  49,  242. 
Scptuagint,  the,  182. 
Serfdom,  90. 
Sermons,  187,  188,  195. 
Servants,  50. 
Severuj,  see  Schiefer. 
Sickingen,  V.  von,  34,  37,  232. 
Sigismund,  198,  199. 
Signs,  161.  162. 
Simon.  183. 

Sin,  original.  61,  110,  111.  207. 
Skeptics,  232. 
Solitude,  155. 

I 


Solomon,  3. 
Sophists,  the.  243. 
Soul,  the    117.  122.  123 
Spalatin.  G.,  26.  30.  163. 
Stars,  the  influence  of.  244. 
Staupitz,  9,  10,  13,  14,  20,  21,  29, 

135,  146,  228. 
StiefTel,  M.,  246. 
Stetner.  L.,  73. 
Strassburg.  249. 
Strauss,  Anna,  223. 
Superstition,  167. 
Supper,     the     Lord's,     14,     175; 

absence  from,  221,  222. 
Swiss,    the,     14;    their    argument 

concerning   the   right   to   make 

war,  88. 
Syria,  186. 
Syrians,  the,  208. 

Table    talk,    the,    how    collected, 

66f. 
Tailors,  their  negligence,  64. 
Taubenheim,  50. 
Teaching,  2. 
Tears,  242. 
Temptations,  145,  156,  161,  162, 

18I,210f. 
Terence.  2,  227.  243. 
Testament,    the    New,    176,    177, 

181;  the  Old.  177. 
Theologians.  230. 
Theologv,  120,  121. 
Thixtoli;  J..  81. 
Thraso,  243. 
Thuringia.  38. 
Thyestes,  15. 
Timothv.  211. 
Tobias,  176. 

Tolpel,  Luther's  dog,  170. 
Torgau,  72.  232. 
Trier,  236. 

Trinity,  the.  121,124. 
Tucher,  A.,  3. 
Tunis.  86. 
Turbulence,  88. 
Turkeys.  172. 
Turks,  the.  51,  71.  115.  121,  139, 

147,  229. 
Tyrants,  90,  162. 

UrimThummlm.  225. 

Valla.  Lorcnza,  105. 
Vchus.  35. 

Venice,  population  of,  19. 
Vergil,  6,  94.  103,  175,  194.  202 
Vices  of  different  countries,  247. 
Vienna,  229. 
Vowi,  monaitic,  210. 
259  1 


INDEX 


Waldenses,  229,  230. 

War,  88f. 

Wealth,  226. 

Weimar,  232. 

Weller,  I-,  xii,  67. 

Wellcr.P..  217,233. 

Wends,  the,  234. 

Whipping  children,  1,  3. 

Wick,  J.  von,  144. 

Winkler,  G.,  74. 

Witchcraft,  3,  163,  164. 

VVittenberg,  5,  20,  81,  166. 

Women,  incapacitated  for  public 
affairs,  54,  55;  averse  to  child- 
bearing,  56. 


Word  of  God,  see  Bible. 

World,  the,  its  preference  for 
Satan,  165f.;  ingratitude  of 
towards  the  gospel,  166;  vanity 
of,  177;  end  of,  229,  246,  250; 
growing  worse,  236;  age  of, 
244,  245. 

Worms,  Diet  of,  33,  36,  41,  144; 
conference  at,  147. 

Wyclif,  J.,  197f. 

Zeitz,  199. 
Zettler,  B.,  239. 

Zwingli,  14,  22,  112,  114,  156, 
181,  230,  231.  249. 


1260] 


Princeton  Theological   Seminary  5peer  Library 


1    1012  01084  3797 


DATE  DUE 


DEMCO  38-297 


